Loose Ends
Why can’t bloggers and social media leave Saeed and Naghmeh Abedini alone to work out the crisis in their marriage?
Because some of us have information that leads us to believe that real reconciliation isn’t a priority for Saeed and his camp.
The priority we believe is to force Naghmeh Abedini into a “counseling” situation that does not compel Saeed to deal with his (alleged) abuse, but provides “holy cover” for him to begin a lucrative speaking career with Franklin Grahams help.
There are two ways that this situation could be dealt with.
In one scenario, both parties leave social media and begin intensive counseling separately, then together (after the abuse is confessed and repented of) in an attempt to reconcile the marriage.
This is a long and difficult process.
In the other scenario, the allegations of abuse are denied and Naghmeh Abedini is marginalized and even vilified if need be in order to establish Saeed as a “godly” victim.
Saeed Abedini has already denied the allegations, as has Franklin Graham.
It’s not that difficult to see what comes next.
The question then becomes how one levels the playing field when one side has one of the most famous “Christian” leaders in the country along with one of it’s most expensive and effective public relations firms?
The answer is social media.
I’ll be blunt.
This is not what I believe Gods best is, nor do I believe that this marriage has a snowballs chance in hell at this point.
Social media was used to keep Saeed’s plight in front of the public and now it will be used to keep this battle going as well.
We all hoped for better…but the demands of the American evangelical corporate machine for celebrities to exploit will win the day.
The whole Abedini family will lose, but the machine will roll on.
Skip Heitzig will be speaking at this years Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa pastors conference.
Naturally, I find this outrageous because of his long history of (allegedly) abusing power and his involvement as a board member of Gospel For Asia.
My outrage is to be expected.
What has been unexpected is the outrage for the same reasons expressed by some of his Calvary Chapel co-affiliates.
Not a few of them have tried to get information from him in order the understand the GFA debacle.
They have been stonewalled.
Now, more than a few are wondering who their “leadership” is accountable to…and they are finding out first hand what many of us have known for years.
They are accountable to no one.
The CCA board cannot and will not police it’s own and instead offers up men like Heitzig at regional and national conferences, imbuing them with rank and authority in the process.
It is a travesty… but one that has been present at many levels for a very long time.
We’ll see if those involved have the will to change that.
What is “sin”?
all i can do is pray that the Abedinis have a true God-honoring outcome; whatever that may be
as the secular world begins to understand how the amoral principle of corporation has been exploited, and has exploited him, the common man is disgusted – the corporate model church will, more and more, be distasteful to Believers as will the Madison Avenue preachers … we need to pray for the Church, i think
Its nice to finally see a picture of the entire family althought I know that its a fairy tale ending I want. Not one picture of Saaed with his kids in a publicity stunt. Or another picture of Naghmeh with the kids with her publicity stunt. How said both sides use the media to advance their narrative.
At first glance I thought that was a picture of Andy Dick. Make your own application…
Yes, Michael, you have foreseen this current situation with Saeed and Naghmeh.
I’d hoped for better, but I, of all people, should have known better. Been there, done that. Ego trumps repentance in most cases. Fame is the Sirens Call; irresistible and deadly…..
How tragic that such ‘famous actors’ on the world’s stage have missed an incredible opportunity to truly glorify God….. Apparently, we are ALL sinners.
(excellent clip on sin.Thank you. I’ll listen to more of those 90 second messages).
I continue to pray…. and pray…..and try to not be so cynical. ….
Although I don’t really trust Franklin, I’m not convinced this is about how much $ Saaed can make for him. I want to give Franklin the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Franklin truly does want the marriage to be reconciled. I want to believe that.
Also, I want to give Julie Ann the benefit of the doubt that she truly wants to protect Naghmeh . But no counselor would ever give this kind of advice to air out dirty laundry in public. This type of exposing is not love. I can’t jump on JA bandwagon because there is no happy ending with her other than divorce simple because JA thinks the marriage is already over a long time ago. Official Divorce is the next step in the JA hand book.
So, who are we to believe? I am hoping that there will be reconciliation. That will never ever happen with JA approach. JA is wrong and she should let these two work this out without her online help. If they get a divorce that is their choice. JA should leave them alone to make their own decision.
No one is saying that a women has to stay in an abusive situation. Absolutely no one. No one is forcing anyone to go to any kind of counseling. No one. But if there ever will be a reconciliation of this marriage, than “couples counseling” the very thing JA thinks is wrong, will probably be necessary at some point to restore the marriage. Will JA make that determination when Saaed has repented enough for her liking. Should we trust JA that Saaed destroyed the relationship a long time ago and the marriage no longer exists.
One thing is clear to me, JA should drop this story as her blog.
Not that I have any right, but for the sake of blogorama, I want to know who Naghmeh’s adviser is. This person advised her (perhaps wisely) to get out in front of all of this, and lay out ALL of Saeed’s bad acts before he was ever released from prison.
Set the agenda, set the tone, gain the upper ground. But what if she / he too turns out to be a well know scoundrel similar to Franklin?
The only incident we have seen documented involved him pushing away his wife 9 years ago while she was trying to rip the computer out of his hands while he was skyping his parents. She asked for and got him arrested for domestic violence for that one shove and he plead not guilty only to change the plea to a guilty in exchange for a small fine and probation (and no expense of fighting the charge to clear his name).
Now…lesson one is you never, ever, ever push your wife no matter what she might be doing to you. You leave the house.
Lesson two – never plead guilty if you are innocent. Easy to say when the alternative is a huge legal bill and still a 50/50 chance of some jail time.
The only other incident is her equating his porn viewing as her being sexually abused.
Everything else has been nothing but conjecture by all involved. And so one very serious issue as far as any counseling is if in fact one of the parties (and their counselors) does not define abuse in the same way as the other or in the alternative (as is often the case) was on the receiving end of the same behavior that the other spouse calls abuse.
Once more, to be clear, I am not saying there was (is) or was not (is not) abuse in this marriage. I am saying I do not know and neither does anyone else.
Has she ever gone on record with what he has been doing to her in the marriage, what he did to her in Iran in jail, and what he asked her to do that was the final straw in going public in those emails (which you recall I received and were quite vague).
MLD
If I was being accused of racism, and the person accusing me was getting his/her counsel (and definition of racism) from Al Sharpton, I am guessing we would have a hard time working things out.
Steve, these are all good questions but better left to the experts in one on one private counseling and not aired in public. JA should shut up on her blog once and for all about this.
The unfortunate part of running to her defense is that I have to take her word for so much. That would have been easier had she not lied so publicly, so many times ov3er the last few years. Her word just doesn’t hold much weight.
So she has a separation, she has restraining orders and she has an arrest from 2007 as evidence. She can go forward with the divorce, and she will get the kids. This is all within her rights to do.
I just can’t vouch for her or her husband right now. She has lawyers and family and thousands of facebook fans. She’ll be fine without me.
Andrew..I agree.
There is no substitute (and I speak from experience) in being in a room, either with the couple together or with them each individually, and asking multiple, pointed, detailed questions, including questions for clarification, to truly get down to what the truth might be. Phone calls don’t do it – and certainly not typed correspondence.
Face to face, eye to eye, in the moment.
It is that experience, as well as the experience with Naghmeh over 14 months, that puts me where Josh is at #10.
The disconnect to me is how anyone can believe Saeed is the monster he is being portrayed as and NOT loudly support Naghmeh and getting free of the bumb and getting the kids and the divorce. Yet you notice the a) assuming the worst of the husband and yet b) saying divorce is not something they can have an opinion on
Shame on anyone who thinks a woman who has been constantly and repeatedly abused by her husband for over a decade ought to try to work things out and stick around….
I love how people come on here and downplay Nagmeh’s abuse at the hand of her husband then couch it with, “I’m not saying it’s not serious..” Yes. Yes you most certainly are. Well, a shove that leaves a mark is serious abuse and he pled guilty because he was guilty. Period.
I love how people don’t read the next sentence, which was:
“Now…lesson one is you never, ever, ever push your wife no matter what she might be doing to you. You leave the house.”
We have been having this argument ad nauseum for the last month on here. Is it abuse? Is it not abuse? If she believes she was abused, she was abused. Law enforcement agreed with her that she had been abused. So what now…everyone says they are praying for reconciliation. Why? Why not pray for justice? In my opinion, abuse of any kind is grounds for divorce and I would be advising her to do just that if he did not convincingly repent and and change.
Yeah Josh the next sentence after an entire paragraph downplaying the abuse. Believe me, I read it.
I have always said I believe she was abused. She is well within her rights to divorce.
Steve said the same thing, more forcefully.
An interesting aside – if she files for divorce does she pay him support as he has no income?
You were either selective in your reading or selective in your outrage.
This time, I am with Steve on this one. There is a whole lot of conjecture and I have gotten burned in the past taking sides prematurely. I also do not see this as a gender issue. The county that I live in has a rate of spouse abuse where there are more women beating up their men then the converse. The people that I personally know who married or dated abusers are all men here, believe it or not. One close friend had his wife pull a knife on him and threaten him with a demonic voice. The other man was dating a woman who decided to beat her ex within an inch of his life. She died in jail awaiting trial. Abuse swings both ways and I am not for anyone doing it.
Cash…actually he plead not guilty. First.
Actually…the police arrested him because of Naghmeh’s request. Something rare for the police but not unheard of either.
That was the report as detailed in the news earlier…
If your mind is made up that I am the sort of guy who “downplays abuse” then nothing will change it. You have some company around here I am sure and they’ll pile on soon enough…
My pastoral record speaks otherwise..but don’t let that bother you believing what you want to believe.
Steve,
My comment was not meant to be personal. I am not saying you are “the sort of guy” who downplays abuse. I was only going off what you wrote and by your tone, I thought it was prejudicial against Naghmeh. I certainly could’ve been wrong.
I think what Billy Martin said of Reggie Jackson and George Steinbrenner holds true here;
“One is a born liar and the other is convicted.”
It looks like Michael seems to be the one jumping to foregone conclusions. He has concluded the marrriage is over. He has concluded Naghmeh is telling the truth and Saeed is lying. He has concluded that Saeed is trying to salvage a lucrative speaking career. He appraently bases this on information that he has that we don’t have but that he has not shared with us. So he fosters a speculative trail of gossip on a social media site in the interest of “justice”.
I have survived an abusive marriage. I have forgiven my husband for what he has done and he has forgiven me. Through our love of Christ we have reconciled and have been together almost 37 years. As I’ve shared- we had to leave churches and leave friends- but we never left each other. As long as the social media gossip mongers keep this story alive – the Abedinis suffer. Yes- they should stay off Facebook- I’ve said that before. But the rest of us should BUTT OUT of their lives. This is my last post on the topic.
Cookie, I couldn’t agree more. We should butt out of their lives starting with JA and her blog.
it seems to me this afternoon that once we leave the hypothetical, we are engaging in gossip in this matter …
Cookie and Andrew,
Both JA and Michael have every right to write whatever they wish on their own blogs. Who left it up to you what they should write about?
JA isn’t going anywhere.
God willing, as my health allows, neither am I.
Yes, bloggers do rely heavily on sources that usually demand anonymity.
That is not ideal.
It is more frustrating for the bloggers than the readers.
We have to decide if the information is accurate and if the cause is important enough to risk not only negative feedback, but legal action.
The only thing left at that point is the track record of the bloggers involved.
Have they been accurate and fair in the past?
I stand by my record.
I’m sure my friend Julie Anne will do the same.
If you truly believe that people should “butt out”…then stop reading the blogs and spare yourself the sin.
Michael, I always felt you are fair with your journalism. I don’t feel that way about JA. I don’t post or read her blog unless there is an article you reference. I think what she is doing is fruitless and doing great harm
Andrew, you’ve been pretty clear on your feelings about me. I don’t care whether you like my journalism or not.
I do my best to use source information and even try to talk to people directly when I can. A few mainstream media outlets have used information from my articles. I’m not just passing my thoughts around. It doesn’t make sense for me to want to report misinformation. Where does that lead?
But I do get annoyed when people tell me to shut up. I guess it triggers that pesky $500,000 lawsuit my pastor threw at me, trying to keep me quiet. It’s not nice to tell people to shut up. It’s rude. Please stop.
Steve, you are generally a fair and decent guy, but you have lost your objectivity on this one. I understand why. Like most of us you feel used and manipulated by Naghmehs emails. Not only that, you used your influence with your congregation to further the deception. Add on top of that you must be questioning your own discernment for allowing yourself to get involved.
Yes Saeeds abuse conviction was 9 years ago, but if he did not get the proper counseling at that time, studies show the abuse, more than likely continued, if not escalated. From what I am reading they received marriage counseling 9 years ago, but I have not read anywhere that he received any type of counseling for being an abuser. I would think that, with as out there on social media, as these two are, it would be mentioned at some point.
I remember when the story first broke of Saeeds abuse; you alluded to believing the conspiracy that Naghmeh was receiving some kind of threat to her and the kids. It seemed to be the only plausible reason. Most often it is the simplest, most likely answer, that is the truth.
A good percentage of the posters and or reader here have gone through similar experiences with their churches, myself included. Maybe that’s why I was able to work through it more quickly this time. You will get through it also, but only when you take the focus off what Naghmeh “has done”.
jlo – A few points. I do not remotely question my “discernment” during those many months since #FreeSaeed day in December of 2013. Frankly, I am very leery of the discernment-hyped mentality. Love believes all things..does not take a hyper-cynical attitude to what seems very clear…a wife’s devotion to her husband and the father of their children, unjustly imprisoned in Iran and needing to get home. Now, once someone has shown themselves to be a liar, then I am going to be suspicious if they tell me the sun is shining. THAT is how serious I take integrity and honesty and how much I expect it from my fellow Christians.
The report of the incident was that Naghmeh pushed Saeed (she denied) in an attempt to grab away his computer while he was talking to his parents (not denied). He pushed her in return (he denied) to try to keep her from taking the computer and get her out of the room. It is an ugly scene any way you slice it.
From a domestic abuse standard, there is a reason a push is a misdemeanor that gets no jail time, a puny fine and even had to be filed at the wife’s request. Cops don’t NEED the wife’s permission in abuse cases to arrest someone but they would not have done so here unless she insisted the article suggests by quoting the cop
He did have anger management courses as part of the plea, but really, if in fact this was the worst of the behavior – what exactly is abuse counseling to come to grips with his abuse supposed to look like? IF (and it is a big if)..IF the guy says, look, I was reacting to her trying to interrupt my call with my parents and did not want her to close the computer.
She does say this had happened to her before and had warned him. I don’t have any reason to not believe that. I do have plenty of reason to not just assume on the basis of one incident that this very strong, independent, American woman all of a sudden disappeared into a battered wife who lived in the shadows and never again stood up to him, never again called the cops.
But the thing is, that nobody hears – this is from my experience. Real people, real cops involved in other cases. Real lies. And also real abuse sometimes too. I simply don’t take sides when I don’t know all the facts..all the information.
I wrote on here before that violence escalates, that pushing his wife was wrong, and specifically wrote “Good for Naghmeh for calling the cops and arresting him” – I repeat it now.
A final clarification. My theory you referenced was in connection to her stopping her advocacy. I recall many women, including a few here, thinking she had another man. I never imagined that at all, never in my mind, because I had read for 14 months her love and devotion for this man.
I repeat my bottom line. Someone who could speak Farsi should have made it clear to Saeed that if he is innocent as he first pleaded, he needed to spend the kids diaper and Gerber money, go into whatever debt needed, to fight his wife in court and clear his name and prove his innocency. This is America and as he now knows, the consequences stay with you far beyond a sub 100 fine and a year probation.
Rest assured, if Naghmeh comes out and goes on record with specific claims of abuse, dates and actions, I will believe her instantly. If he hit her. Threatened to hit her. Demeaned and insulted her. Threatened to take the kids to Iran or something. Made her watch or perform porn stuff with him…lots of examples could be listed.
But the “pastor fooled and scorned” theory needs to disappear. That’s not what motivates my comments.
Wow. I leave the site to check another and see this story.
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/02/18/university-of-montana-student-gets-245k-settlement-over-false-rape-allegation/
“The dramatic reversal is just one of a slew of lawsuits nationwide in which young men have accused universities of erroneously and over-zealously clamping down on sexual assault.”
(The guy was not just a “student” he was a top NFL QB prospect who saw that entire career possibility and his fame at Montana ruined and potentially millions lost because of a rush to judgement and the benefit of the doubt being given to the one with a lying agenda and truth be damned – 275,000 is hardly compensatory and it sure is not punitive for the school to learn anything)
Michael, keep up the good work! The right thing often isn’t the easy thing.
Thank you, Ruth…sometimes it feels like the Lord gives the say things to His other kids… 🙂
***The only other incident is her equating his porn viewing as her being sexually abused.***
If he was viewing porn on a phone she provided and paid for while he was in prison and in any way made her feel like she needed to continue paying for it and maintain his access to the phone and the internet, then, honestly, I would view that as in at least some way being sexually abusive.
Agreed…she said nothing of the sort though…but agreed.
“sexual abuse (through Saeed’s addiction to pornography)” – were her (only) words.
I guess it is a make your own application…..
Micheal I think you hit the nail on the head: the people that don’t want to know, don’t think it appropriate, whatever should stop reading. If not for people like you, TWW, JA etc stories like this & GFA wouldn’t have mainstream attention. I think it’s because of the blogs that GFA has become the issue it is. This particular issue is an issue because there is such massive potential to exploit.
There is definitely room for propriety considerations (how specific of details, etc) in these more personal stories but they are none the less important as people try and take advantage of the church. I appreciate that JA had a note that her blog was proofed by Naghmeh. I’m sure you Micheal have things read over by interested parties before posting where appropriate.And there is definitely potential to use these stories to exploit in other ways (i.e., collecting $$ for yourself) but it’s not ever something I’ve seen you all do.
You can tell that JA just wants Saaed to sue Naghmeh rather than bring healing to the situation. Most folks posting here want these two to stay off of facebook and social medial. JA wants you to read her facebook and draw more people to it. I don’t care if its source information or not, fishing for a lawsuit will never help anyone.
***Agreed…she said nothing of the sort though…but agreed.***
She said he had a phone in prison and she said he watched porn while in prison. Who else would have been paying the bill if not for her?
I’m afraid this will all end in a big lawsuit. Then the “Who would Jesus sue” campaign will go intro full throttle with JA. This gives Christianity a big fat black eye. No one needs this. This is why I am hoping she will remove her posts. I apologize if I told her to shut up. But she will do what she is going to do. I just hope and pray she reconsiders. I’ll say again fruitless.
Steve, aren’t you currently a pastor? Please, please, do more reading so you can understand domestic violence. I don’t see you mentioning anything about emotional, spiritual, sexual abuse. Each of these can be just as harmful, if not more.
<blockquote?You can tell that JA just wants Saaed to sue Naghmeh rather than bring healing to the situation.
Are you some conspiracy theorist? That thought has never entered my mind. Please stop, Andrew.
The lawsuit idea is bizarre. No one has mentioned lawsuit anywhere, but to attribute it to me is ridiculous. What gives Christianity a big fat black eye is when the church covers up abuse.
Your apology is lame – as if you are directing it through a 3rd party? Come on, Andrew.
Sorry, I messed up html above!
Steve, aren’t you currently a pastor? Please, please, do more reading so you can understand domestic violence. I don’t see you mentioning anything about emotional, spiritual, sexual abuse. Each of these can be just as harmful, if not more.
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Do more reading?? Are you reading my posts?
If you really think I am posting out of some personal ignorance then I won’t convince you otherwise. It is an easy dismissal. At least you aren’t assuming I don’t care about abuse as some in the past like to state.
My first pastoral experience with abuse was in 1995….it hasn’t stopped since.
JA, the lawsuit idea was never mine. It came from Pastor Al’s website. I think there may even be an entire article there. I guess no one needs to know you were the moderator there at one time. Anyhow, you even mentioned your own pesky lawsuit above. You really are full of it.
she said he watched porn while in prison
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I never read that. Certainly not in her emails and not in any news listings that basically just summarized the emails. Maybe I missed something.
She did say he watched 6-8 hours of movies on her Amazon account – then she deleted that claim later (on facebook). Not sure if one can watch porn on Amazon and not sure one can watch Amazon from Iran either…..
In any event, there is plenty of free porn on the internet – though I have always understood Iran blocks those sites but maybe not at the prisons.
Like I said, far more questions than any actual, solid facts – all conjecture.
I agreed with you J2..IF…it happened…but you seem to be concluding a “of course it happened” which is no different than the way everyone else is concluding things with no information.
Hey, of course that hotshot Montana QB raped that woman…you know how entitled those jocks are and if some girl dares say no to them, look out.
Sounds about right. And was terribly wrong. As Christians this is EXACTLY the context where Jesus warned us about judging. Not telling us we can’t come down hard on sinners for their actions when their actions are known, but for making judgements without the facts.
This is one, and maybe the first (of many) confusions placed upon me by “the church” (not the real one, the corporations).
Upon getting married, I was immediately smacked in the face by the utter disregard “the church” has for the state of marriage, the REAL state of things. Oh sure, there’s TONS of “equipping” (ironically mostly on a charge-basis, but I digress). However, the difference between what is talked about as the ideal and what actually occurs is rarely spoken of, THAT I’ve never understood. I attended a pastor’s conference where it began with a very high profile leader stating (to mostly men in attendance) “for many of you guys, your wives are your thorns in the flesh.” I WAS STUNNED! Yes that may have been poor taste, but why state an opinion so obviously shared (hundreds of guys chuckled) and NOT address, or more importantly work first on healing relationships?!!!
Contrary to MANY ministries’ SOPs, no where does God state in Scripture such an elevated importance of image/appearance, innovating teaching, organizing methods, etc.
BUT DOES does give ONE and ONLY ONE example of how He loves His church – marriage.
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (Eph 5:25 ESV).
God NEVER said “Pastors ____ your church….Men _____ your image/power.”
If we REALLY believe the Bible to be God’s Word, why don’t we universally place such importance on our marriages, the only thing God equates to loving His church?
Instead, new marriages struggles (or any others) are pummeled with “equipping” events then strongly encourages NOT to share reality, especially women (they’re divisive-I’ve heard it MANY times).
Then you wonder why these types of stories occur.
However, someone questions the holy dove, distinctives, identify as a Calvinist, etc., and all holy church-hell breaks loose.
I forgot to add, before anyone jihads against me here for again speaking the truth, be aware I’ve seen many secular environments (military ops, non profit, for profit, etc.) endless train and retrain until goals matches outcomes, and that for power or $ or both.
So, the world gets to (and should) strive to live up to their words, but in God’s Kingdom we ignore the Founder’s goal?
Andrew,
One more insult toward Julie Anne and you’re banned.
She is doing what her conscience demands.
I fully and enthusiastically support what she’s doing and how she’s doing it.
I’ve let this go on too long…dissent is necessary, but unfounded conspiracy theories won’t cut it here.
Nov. 12th on Pastor Al’s website.
_________________________________________________________________________
Ban me if you have to Michael. I just need your readers to understand that this lawsuit idea has been brewing for a while and its not some conspiracy theory or some bizarre idea unless you really think Pastor Al is crazy.
Andrew,
You have poor reading comprehension.
It appears that he was speculating that Naghmeh would be sued, not that she would sue Saeed.
Your theory just blew a gasket and smoke and oil are everywhere.
That was pure speculation and Julie Anne had nothing to do with it.
In any case you got the conspiracy theory ass backwards and we await your apology to Julie Anne.
Julie,
I’ve always admired what you did, I just wanted you to know that.
Sorry, wasn’t keeping up with the back/forth that well (I tried, but my migraines prevent careful thought sometimes). At first, I thought Michael was going to ban me!
: o
Back to your blog.
Ironically, when y’all were being abused (before your blog) we lived near there, then we left the area, but not attending that church, I wasn’t aware of what occurred.
However, I have a lot of experience with the silencing of the sheep.
Anyway, standing up to such power as you did, in my unit, we would’ve called you a stud (or studdess if that’s more politically correct). It wasn’t until I returned “to the world” was I confronted with Americans who live in the fetal position when threatened, and more so in “the church.”
Please, soldier on!
Oh, and having a “strong-willed woman” as a mom (she didn’t put up with abuse), I’m not at all threatened by powerful women, as God intended you to be. Especially since many “leaders” refuse to stand for the abused.
In other, yet related news…
http://news.yahoo.com/nike-dropped-manny-pacquiao-following-204645880.html
Ironically, boxer Manny Pacquiao makes anti-gay remarks and is dropped by Nike.
Yet when Tiger Woods accumulated a harem, he keeps his “center” and online store with Nike.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nike-Tiger-Woods-Center/131138526934415
Yea, abuse of women hasn’t changed much.
Michael, I think you misunderstood me. I never thought Naghmeh would sue Saaed. It was exactly how you said it. Saaed may sue Naghmeh. This is why I made the comment about the “Who would Jesus sue” campaign. Why tempt someone to sue you with un-collaborated claims.
Andrew,
You have taken a throwaway post and turned it into something nuts.
No one has even hinted at such nonsense.
We’re done now.
***I never read that. Certainly not in her emails and not in any news listings that basically just summarized the emails. Maybe I missed something.
She did say he watched 6-8 hours of movies on her Amazon account – then she deleted that claim later (on facebook). Not sure if one can watch porn on Amazon and not sure one can watch Amazon from Iran either…..
In any event, there is plenty of free porn on the internet – though I have always understood Iran blocks those sites but maybe not at the prisons.
Like I said, far more questions than any actual, solid facts – all conjecture.
I agreed with you J2..IF…it happened…but you seem to be concluding a “of course it happened” which is no different than the way everyone else is concluding things with no information.***
I’m quoting straight from the Christianity Today article.
***Those troubles include “physical, emotional, psychological, and sexual abuse (through Saeed’s addiction to pornography),” she wrote. The abuse started early in their marriage and has worsened during Saeed’s imprisonment, she said.***
So, he must have been viewing porn in prison for the abuse to have “worsened”.
I am not claiming “Of course it happened”. I (along with multiple other people as I recall) was initially taken aback by the idea that Saeed could be sexually abusing her from a prison halfway around the world or that he would have internet access in prison. But, after reading the Idaho Statesman article on prison conditions in Iran and that Smart Phone use and internet access were not uncommon, I find her claim far less unbelievable or out of left field than I did to begin with.
Since she made her initial claim, we’ve learned that phone use and internet access in Iranian prisons are not uncommon and that Saeed plead guilty to domestic assault and he issued a total non-denying denial of his wife’s accusations against him. These things all make Naghmeh’s claims much more credible to me than they at first seemed. I have seen nothing from Saeed’s side that would back up his side of anything. All I’ve seen from him is a non-denying denial and a facebook post throwing the responsibility of healing his marriage on his wife.
So, he must have been viewing porn in prison for the abuse to have “worsened”.
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???
I know the quote as it is from her email to me and the others…She includes about every form of abuse one could name and then says it has worsened. By your logic that means his physical abuse also increased even though he was in prison half a world away? How could that be. Emotional, verbal…sure. And I have said before I believe her on that. I also have said before that the guy was being tortured in an Iranian jail (even if he did have a phone) and since I don’t know what exactly he said to her, or the tone or frequency, then I withhold judging on that score.
Look. We are crossing over into territory where it looks like I am defending the guy and I am not. I agree with you j2, that once we found out the phone was there then a whole lot of her claims make more sense but the thing is a whole lot of new questions then arise which have not been answered.
If you can conclude simply by what you have read that Saeed was yelling and pressuring Naghmeh to make sure to keep the monthly charges for pornRus going because he was watching it from prison and it was her duty to pay for his sin….then fine. Conclude that. Maybe you are right. Maybe Julie can ask for some clarification next time she talks to her and runs a story.
I believe she was abused.
I don’t believe it was worse while he was in prison.
***If you can conclude simply by what you have read that Saeed was yelling and pressuring Naghmeh to make sure to keep the monthly charges for pornRus going because he was watching it from prison and it was her duty to pay for his sin….then fine.***
I never said that. I never thought that. I have no idea if he was paying for porn. It’s readily available for free. But presumably someone must have had to pay for his phone and his data and wi-fi. Pretty much it seems like she would be stuck in a situation where she has to either pay for his phone so he can contact the outside world while also knowing that he would use it to view porn or not pay for his phone. I would view that situation as to some degree sexually abusive. So, I no longer think her claim that he sexually abused her by viewing porn is crazy, a man viewing porn can be sexual abuse, and she’s not necessarily twisting or stretching definitions to classify his porn viewing as sexual abuse.
Amen Josh. When believing and taking sides people forget there is option three…none of the above.
I agree with Steve and Josh as well.
FTR, today was the first day I read that article. I didn’t even know it existed. The lawsuit idea as it pertains to Naghmeh was foreign to me until you mentioned it, Andrew. Sorry to have to burst your bubble.