The Worst Is Over For Gospel For Asia

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81 Responses

  1. Rob says:

    My hunch is that most donors to GFA don’t follow these blogs. Most likely, many are oblivious to any of these issues.

  2. Michael says:

    Rob,

    You’re right and that’s what makes major media coverage of blog started issues so important.
    It’s also what makes it easy for these organizations to wait out the storm…

  3. walkinthespirit says:

    You are 100% right Michael! The big news in your “other news” link is that KP personally owns all believers’ church property! It’s in his name as sole owner, all churches, schools, land, buildings, probably even hospitals! This probably means KP is a billionaire in USD, or close to it.

    And his family make up 4 of 6 BCI board members who control all the finances. This swindler could sell any or all of this property at will and legally keep the money for himself, now that the illegal transfer of the property from Believers’ Church to himself was already done.

    Donors, pastors and anyone who cares about the church should hunt this man down and never stop pursuing him until he is behind bars or has all of the money and property siezed and returned to the church and/or donors.

    In my mind there’s no reason to call KP a brother – he is a swindler of the worst kind, bringing shame on the Church and doesn’t submit to any church authority so can’t be confronted in the context of the Church any longer, meaning it’s perfectly appropriate to sue and prosecute him from every angle available. In my opinion, the reputation of the church at large depends on how we handle the worst criminals among us.

  4. Nonnie says:

    “K.P. Yohannan wearing robes and having his ring kissed drew more scorn than a hundred insiders speaking about lives being broken.

    When the church is more concerned with ecclesiastical rituals than with broken lives it has utterly forgotten it’s purpose for existing in the first place.”

    Exactly!! I was so disgusted and grieved when I read the testimonies by former staff,and especially the way women were treated, yet not many got upset until they saw the cow-towing and kissing of the ring on KP’s hand, while he was wearing his pink robe. Do people not matter ????

  5. Michael says:

    “Do people not matter ????”

    No, they don’t.
    Money and power are the movers in the corporate church.

  6. Michael says:

    walkinthespirit,

    The reputation of the church doesn’t matter when money and power are on the line.
    Too many believers are also celebrity whores…

  7. Nonnie says:

    Really sad state of affairs in the church. I pity any young man or woman who is being sent out by their church to serve with GFA.

  8. Judy says:

    Don’t you think, Michael, that anyone who complains about a pastor or a church is seen as a trouble maker and someone less than spiritual, no matter what the charge? Isn’t the attitude that anyone who complains is the one with a problem? I always sort of thought that those in leadership look upon complainers as people they want to get rid of, rather than listen to. Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought that was the prevailing notion among church leadership in America. It’s one of the reasons I’d walk out of a church rather than lodge a complaint against anyone because I’ve seen how people are often treated.

  9. Michael says:

    Let me make this clear.
    There isn’t a Calvary Chapel anywhere that is unaware of these issues.
    How they respond will speak volumes about their true care for the sheep.

    We’ve had some men of God like Jim Jacobson and Steve Wright speak clearly to the matter…we need a whole bunch more.

  10. Michael says:

    Judy,

    Last night I asked a pastor point blank if he was supporting GFA.
    He responded with hostility and ended with the standard bullcrap about being too busy serving the Lord to answer my inquiries.

    The people need in the pews need to empower themselves, think for themselves, and act as the Holy Spirit leads…even if that leads them out the door.

  11. Michael says:

    You’ll all have to forgive me…I see where this is going and it frustrates and angers me beyond words.

    I just wish the people of God cared as much about the kingdom of God as they do secular politics…

  12. Christine Harris says:

    Time to start praying that indictment happens then! I have spiritual and emotional scars when it comes to that place. AND I have loved ones on the inside. It’s hard for some people to leave. It took us six years over our “required” two. But I don’t want anyone having to stay in this…… (what of many words should I use here?!?!? a few to many too pick from)….I’ll go with sham…..any longer then necessary.

  13. Kevin H says:

    Michael,

    Don’t get too disheartened about GFA. We just recently saw the results of the Mark Driscoll scandal have more impact than many of the scandals you covered in the past. The advent of social media has allowed a much wider spectrum of people to be reached and make a difference. And you yourself know that someone like Joe Focht stepping out and speaking to the issue, while constrained in its nature, is still more response than you would have seen in the past. With more and more people learning more and more details of this scandal, it is making it harder for top leaders/influencers to stay quiet and act like nothing is happening. This one could yet turn out different than many of the scandals you covered in the past.

  14. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    I hope you’re right.
    To be blunt, the only thing that can force a Joe Focht to speak up is intense media coverage combined with a fervent desire to cover ones backside.
    If the media exposure dies down, this will be buried.

    In the Albuquerque/Heitzig scandals we made a hell of a dent…then it all blew over and he recovered nicely.

    The template for that recovery is the same one being used here.

  15. Kevin H says:

    But that’s the thing. Media coverage today, while maybe not to the degree of being classified as “intense”, can still be significant with social media. Even if “traditional” media doesn’t get involved. Years ago, that wasn’t the case.

  16. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    Again, I hope you’re right…but I’m already sensing scandal fatigue…

  17. Kevin H says:

    I don’t know if it will work out for righteousness and justice on this one either. I’m also hoping myself. I just think the chances are better this time around.

  18. Twin Peaks says:

    Just because some CC pastors:

    1.) Investigated GFA on their own… (me)
    2.) Called the 2nd highest person in command at GFA, next to K.P. himself… (me)
    3.) Prayed about our involvement with GFA… (me)
    4.) Pulled their financial support… (me)
    5.) Told their congregation why we pulled our financial support from GFA… (me)
    6.) And didn’t want to blog about it … (me)

    …does NOT mean we here at “Calvary Chapel” don’t listen or care about the wounded people and the grave mistakes GFA has made. It all stinks to high heaven.

    THIS HAS BEEN GRIEVOUS AND PAINFUL in every way and has caused me to literally cry over the pain caused by GFA.

    K.P.’s books are now absent from my library. I cannot read them in good conscience. I have been brutally honest with GFA and they have responded favorably to me, but quite honestly we as a church have shifted all of our missionary monies to smaller, low overhead ministries in which we have a direct relationship/accountability with.

    Maybe the lack of comments from CC pastors here or on Patheos and your disdain for us not speaking out comes from the fact that maybe we fear the Holy Spirit and we do not want to grieve Him by speaking on a public blog when in fact we HAVE done our due diligence in our LOCAL CHURCH where we are called to minister.

    ANOTHER NOTE: I disagree with your assessment that all CC’s know about this. There are many CC’s that do not know. They cannot be responsible for that in which they have not been a part of or have no knowledge of. And I affirm that every CC pastor I have spoken with in regards to GFA has pulled their support as well. This has created a new feeling of fear before God in our hearts.

    We are independent churches. My pastor is with Jesus. When he died, so much regarding CC died as well. The CCA “succession plan” approved by CS is majorly flawed in many areas. Because of that, I stay in close fellowship with those CC’s near me and are like minded as myself. I no longer attend the major conferences.

    My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus’ blood and righteousness.

    I don’t need another ‘conference’.

    I need a filling of His Holy Spirit today – to be what He wants me to be.

    ‘Nuff said. God bless you all.

  19. Michael says:

    Twin Peaks,

    Would it really grieve the Holy Spirit to stand up and be counted for truth and warn the greater Body of Christ?

    Really?

    I commend you for the actions you’ve taken locally, but this is an international matter that affects the whole church.

  20. Twin Peaks says:

    I just did, didn’t I?

    And I did stand up much earlier… not in the sight of the Phoenix Preacher, but in the sight of God.

    As a regular lurker here, I responded to your growing frustration in hopes of trying to calm you down a bit.

    I am not accountable to your ministry, I am accountable to Christ.

  21. once a cc guru says:

    Welcome to the cuckoo’s nest TP! Now that your’re “out of the closet” I look forward to more of your input and insight because there are many (ex)CC’ers that are still bleeding from the wounds left by CS’s unfinished house cleaning…

  22. covered says:

    Twin Peaks, crying over the pain caused by GFA is a strong statement. You have a bigger forum than you think. I hope that you cry equally as much for those who are crushed by people like Grenier, Skip, Raul, Rosales and others in your tribe. If so, then thank you. Too many guys from your tribe come here with the same story and won’t put their money where their mouth is, including friends of mine with a dove on their wall as well.

  23. journeyman says:

    It seems about time these faux board members of all the various ministries and churches start being held to the standard for which that position holds. Not just a bunch of friends that have a conference call a few times a year. As board members, they should be held to the highest biblical standard (1st Tim) and legally they should be held to a fiduciary standard, being culpable for financial improprieties of the ministries. Frankly, I don’t see how anyone can possibly have the time required to properly execute the office of pastor, while sitting on multiple boards.

  24. covered says:

    I agree Journeyman. I also think that the idea that other’s from CC aren’t aware of the GFA mess is a bit of a cop out. Doesn’t it seem as though a pastor would keep their finger on the pulse of an organization that they support giving money to? It just seems as though this thing has been in the news for a while and I know how word travels amongst the pastors and it’s naive to say, “I didn’t know…”

  25. Twin Peaks says:

    Once a CC Guru,

    I was never in any ‘closet.’ How would you know? Ignorant. I do not feel called to comment any further. What is there to NOT understand? You see, it is never enough. I come on here by a different handle, tell you what I have done and it is not enough. Now you want me to get on the “Crucify GFA” train and I say: “As a CC pastor have done my part. I took action. I am on your side on this issue. I agree that our support must cease and they have grieved the Body of Christ.” But it is not enough.

  26. Twin Peaks says:

    Covered,

    Please before you speak, pray. You talk of what you do not know. Truly.

    I am not your whipping boy for CC or will ever be.

    Address your correspondance to CCA-P.O. Box 12381 Newport Beach, CA. 92658.

    Take care.

  27. once a cc guru says:

    uhh ok, I think ?!?

  28. once a cc guru says:

    Maybe it’s better you stay a “lurker” PT…

  29. Twin Peaks says:

    once a cc guru,

    Maybe you should read my #18 a few more times and let it soak in. You would do well to take your own advice as I am not very keen about your opinion either.

  30. once a cc guru says:

    so you’re one of the guys with the knife? I get it!

  31. Michael says:

    oaccg,

    Communication…even communication that is not completely satisfying…is better than no communication at all.

    My guess is that TP not only had nothing to do with your experience, nor could he impact those who failed you.

    Communicating is the only avenue to keep these matters in a place where positive change can occur.

  32. covered says:

    Twin Peaks, for the record, I have many very good friends who fly the dove and I love and respect them. I have even asked them to come on this blog and stand up for what is right and they have refused. While I disagree with their reasons, I respect their convictions. You said yourself that you shed tears regarding the actions of GFA and that comes across as arrogant considering the situation. To deny or to lead us to believe that there are other’s within CC who aren’t aware of what is happening is ridiculous. Your arrogance and pride are evident and you can learn from some of your peers like Steve W and a few others here. Your lack of humility speaks volumes.

  33. once a cc guru says:

    Communication…even communication that is not completely satisfying…is better than no communication at all.

    Agreed… that is IF the communication is NOT deceitful and manipulated lies meant to harm, imho.

  34. uriahisaliveandwell says:

    Did TP just backpedel telling us that CCA had several flaws, therefore sticking close to those in his immediate area, but then told Covered and another person who was addressing him to not use him as a “whipping boy,” but to contact CCA instead?

  35. Michael says:

    oaccg,

    I don’t think TP is not being deceitful or manipulative.
    He believes in a system and way of doing things that you and I do not…but that in itself is not sin.

  36. Michael says:

    It’s not really backpedaling.
    Those who desperately want someone to be accountable and responsible for the failures of CC as a whole need to understand that it’s simply never going to happen.

    Pretending that it will happen or repeating the fact that it should happen will change nothing but will leave you with false hopes and expectations.

    Your only hope is to deal with the local church and board that you have an issue with…and if it’s that big of an issue that will probably fail too.

  37. Twin Peaks says:

    Thank you Michael, you are speaking my heart. Great wisdom there.

  38. covered says:

    I appreciate it very much when CC guys come on here and express their thoughts. It is bothersome when some of them pretend like they are the smartest people in the room. To think that nobody but them knows the truth is an insult.

  39. Col46 says:

    Covered – are you having a bad day? Your comments seem out of character for you. Not all CC pastors support GFA or visit this blog so it is possible that some are not aware of the mess. Blessings to you!

  40. covered says:

    Yes Col46 I am. I agree that not all CC Pastor’s support GFA but I have low tolerance for self serving comments and arrogance. Thanks for your kind way of pointing out my negative comments and I will try to be kinder.

  41. Col46 says:

    Covered – I’m sorry you’re having a bad day. I enjoy your input to the conversations and often find myself relating to what you write, so I knew something was amiss today. Thanks for your reply.

  42. GFA the ex-generation says:

    I don’t think the worst is over for GFA. After reading Warren’s blog post today I think it is about to get a lot worse.

  43. uriahisaliveandwell says:

    “Your only hope is to deal with the local church and board that you have an issue with…and if it’s that big of an issue that will probably fail too.”

    True, and this is basically what TP stated, then when pressed, deferred to CCA. In my mind, that is called back-peddling, or double-speak, or typical avoidance in what many of us have experienced which is manipulative and dishonest. IMO.

    I do, however, commend TP for speaking up locally, yet given his readiness to defer, why not go to the CCA himself and declare his position along with a request to stand with him on this.

  44. Michael says:

    uriah,

    Why don’t you folks understand this?
    The CCA doesn’t give a red rats ass what TP thinks about anything.
    They barely tolerate each other.

    I know TP…and he’s not dishonest or manipulative, or any other pejorative people want to hang on him.

    He’s old school CC in ecclesiology and believes wholeheartedly in the autonomy of the local church.

    I don’t.

    That doesn’t mean that one of us is a villian.

  45. Michael says:

    Theres a big CCA meeting going on right now.
    About half of council showed up.
    Half of them that showed up are some of the biggest asshats in American Christianity today.

    The person who is accountable for any wounds is the person who wounded.

    That’s how this system works.

  46. Twin Peaks says:

    Uriah,

    I alerted CCA and my local heads as soon as I heard the first allegations by GFA. I was poo-pooed basically. I alerted CCA and my local heads about BG. I then talked to BG myself and confronted him myself when no one would. No one here except Michael knows me or those factoids… Your beef is not with me, it is with CCA – it is with GFA. How many here on this blog have personally written a letter and made a phone call to both CCA and GFA about your complaints? Respectfully, who in this room has done this?…

  47. Twin Peaks says:

    And by the way, I need accountability, and am very accountable to those over me in the ministry who are Godly, wise and in every way 1 Timothy and Titus. I am not an island. I need eyesight and rebuke and I need the Body of Christ like they need me…

  48. Twin Peaks says:

    And I didn’
    t even know there WAS a CCA Council meeting going on right now. That’s how much “in the loop” we are with each other.

  49. uriahisaliveandwell says:

    I don’t think anyone made TP out to be a villain. Simply pressed him into being more proactive beyond that local comfort zone that he stated he resided. The kicker was that when this was suggested, CCA was referenced.

    He may not have meant to do this, but when operating independently until one is pressed, then defaulting to another system whom CC’s pastors know will do nothing, then it becomes obvious that one system is simply using the other to avoid having to deal with those issues that have cause much harm to others, while claiming they have no vote or voice beyond their own backyard. And if you complain about that, kick rocks, hands off —-, but then again you could just contact CCA, which just kicks the can further down to the alley, as facts are changed and victims are discredited.

  50. uriahisaliveandwell says:

    TP—-good for you!!

    I would venture to say that all who have blogged and posted in other ways have spoken up regarding GFA. We know CCA keeps tabs on what is blogged here. We also know that CCA does not listen or hear or see, yet at the same time others in the body does and if this is what it takes to affect a change then by all that is within us, in His Name, so be it.

    Appreciate your response TP—big time.

  51. Twin Peaks says:

    Thank you Uriah…but you are missing my point. I am holding your feet to the fire. My feet were held to the fire by own conscience when I heard of these things. There is no kicker to me. I am as shocked and saddened and HAVE BEEN HURT BY CC as much as you and even more!

    Today I have been accused of blowing people off to CCA “when pressed” when in fact I did go to CCA and share my concerns.

    Uriah, please let the room individually speak for each of themselves, not caring if the CCA reads the blog or not. Some do and some don’t I know for sure. So please do not assume.

    Have you, “Uriah,” contacted CCA and GFA personally? If not, why? And again, why am I being vilified on behalf of all CC pastors when in fact I have spoken up to a fault?

    Why is it when a CC pastor shows up here and shares an opinion, he becomes ‘fresh meat”? Hey, you don’t think we as pastors don’t grieve as you or care? We do, and more…

  52. Linnea says:

    These are the verses I think of when I consider GFA, its board, and those who try to stay away from the fray:

    “28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood.[b] 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.”

  53. Em says:

    quite a long thread of comments here… has me wondering why any church would give to any organization that they hadn’t taken the initiative to thoroughly check out for themselves… if a stranger with a sad, sincere face walks in off the street and says, “Pastor, can you help me out? I need money for the wife and kids, for the rent and for gas. I’d be most grateful; but just do what the good Lord lays on your heart…” Does the pastor say, “why sure son, here’s a nice big 4 figure check from our deacon’s fund. Go in peace and the good Lord bless you, real good?” i’m sure it’s happened, but shouldn’t we have grown-ups in charge of the money?

    just thinking, wondering why… wondering how…

  54. uriahisaliveandwell says:

    “There is no kicker to me. I am as shocked and saddened and HAVE BEEN HURT BY CC as much as you and even more!”

    Comparing your pain and grief to mine, and then making a bold statement that it exceeds anything that might have affected or impacted me is rather arrogant, if not just plain clueless.

    “Today I have been accused of blowing people off to CCA “when pressed” when in fact I did go to CCA and share my concerns.”

    And I commended you on this, but then you became defensive and deferred others to follow the same steps, knowing the response that you received? As a Pastor, would it be more meaningful and productive to have empathize with those who pressed you, instead of getting defensive, thus just maybe coming to some type of understanding what it is really like not being heard, then tossed under the bus by those who could affect a huge change within CC. Not as a Pastor, but as a giving unit, that is.

    “Uriah, please let the room individually speak for each of themselves, not caring if the CCA reads the blog or not. Some do and some don’t I know for sure. So please do not assume.”

    That statement alone comes off as protecting the brand. Being a Pastor and not knowing about this conference mentioned makes you what____?

    “Have you, “Uriah,” contacted CCA and GFA personally? If not, why? And again, why am I being vilified on behalf of all CC pastors when in fact I have spoken up to a fault?”

    I trust those who have done the work necessary to expose GFA. As for those victimized by them, sorry—–been there myself, so I did not need to go directly to either GFA or CCA. The facts have been established by men who did the research which included ECFA dropping GFA. I don’t contribute to GFA.

    As for those Pastors who have supported them monetarily or otherwise, it is their utmost responsibility to alert their “association” and fellow pastors, as well as, to hold their feet to the fire when they continue to encourage those in the body of Christ to contribute their time, money, and resources.

    ‘”Why is it when a CC pastor shows up here and shares an opinion, he becomes ‘fresh meat”? Hey, you don’t think we as pastors don’t grieve as you or care? We do, and more…’

    “Fresh meat,” “We do, and more . . . . ” Assumptions, you have not a clue regarding the grief level nor can you compare yours as being “more” than those harmed. The “fresh meat” remark is indicative of this and sidesteps what was being suggested to you.

    Great, it’s good to hear that you grieve and that you care when you are made aware of these things. How about calling a conference together of CC Pastors to hear from those who have experience that which ought to have been addressed a very long time ago. With, or without CCA involvement——and without attorneys to used their man-made tactics to silent these witnesses. Not trying to be sarcastic TP, just bringing it all home to say, it’s time for a huge change in those places where the body of Christ (church) gathers together in His name—–In my opinion, for those who really gives a flip about one of the least of these, that is.

  55. Michael says:

    Uriah,
    You don’t know any more about what TP has gone through than he knows about you.
    You’re way off base with this one.

  56. uriahisaliveandwell says:

    Never said that I did. But did say that he came across as though he does know.

  57. Michael says:

    I’m going to say this one more time then I’m going to get nasty about it.
    A guy like TP can no more hold someone else’s feet to the fire than anyone reading here can.
    He’s tried.
    Didn’t make a dent.

  58. Michael says:

    In this association the little guy has no influence on any policies other than their own liturgy. Believing that things should be different doesn’t make it so .

  59. Michael says:

    What I want to see is each of these individuals speaking out so that it forces the hand of those who haven’t addressed it in any way…especially if they’ve promoted GFA before.

  60. Pastor Al says:

    The mainstream of the church doesn’t nearly care and never will.

    Calvary Chapel could give a flying you-know-what unless it turned out KP was gay or went calvinist.

    The reason Driscoll went down is b/c he was a conservative in a Liberal area and it wasn’t the Church Watchdogs from inside the Tent that got him…it was the liberals outside the church tent and the liberal media that took him out…with the support of some inside the church Tent.

  61. Scott says:

    I shared the CT story link regarding how the EFCA kicked GFA off of it’s recommended charitable organizations list with my niece and husband a couple of days ago.

    They both have a strongly rooted CC involvement. They used to attend Modesto CC and saw K.P. there on occasions.

    Neither one of them had heard a thing about it.

    I shared the link on a closed group FB page I’m a part of with over 100 christians I know from my past involvement in a shared organization.

    Not ONE person replied to my brief comments accompanying the link to the CT story.

    I’m not sure what that means, if anything, however, that was my experience.

  62. Jim Jacobson says:

    Fwiw, there are many cc pastors that I know have called, interviewed, etc. and most have suspended support and made it public.

  63. Scott says:

    I shared the pic of K.P. in robes on his throne receiving devotion from that newly appointed “priest” with my niece and nephew in-law.

    His reply was, “It’s all starting to make sense now!”

    Facetiously, of course 😉

  64. That Guy Over There says:

    TP,

    if you’re on Instagram you’ll know when they meet 😉 not that it matters.

    Like you, I know that the CCA could meet from now until Christmas and it wouldn’t make one bit of difference for my church or your church. Some wouldn’t/won’t like that,.. Some (like me) are just fine with that set up.

    Pastor Al,

    Re: Driscoll. I think your appraisal of the situation is different from the facts.

    Michael,

    You are absolutely correct that GFA has the financial wherewithal to weather the storm at current levels… But who’s to say the levels will stay current?

    You were wrong about Driscoll. You thought that he would weather his storm (admittedly they lacked the financies GFA has). I mean this as an encouragement… God is no mocked and we haven’t seen the outcome yet.

    (On a side note, Pete Nelson seemed to have made up with Skip via IG last week…)

  65. Scott says:

    Btw, I give huge props to TP & JJ. Thanks for caring enough to do what you did!

  66. Scott says:

    #64 “(On a side note, Pete Nelson seemed to have made up with Skip via IG last week…)”

    I’ve been biting my PP typing tongue on that all week. Figured Michael would eventually get around to it when he was ready.

  67. Michael says:

    There’s more to the story than an Instagram pic.

    Won’t have much more to say for a while.

    You will also note that there is not a similar picture with Heitzig and I…

  68. Scott says:

    “You will also note that there is not a similar picture with Heitzig and I…” LOL

  69. passing throgh says:

    “Calvary Chapel could give a flying you-know-what unless it turned out KP was gay or went calvinist.”

    Or, heaven forbid, gay AND Calvinist.

  70. Nonnie says:

    Thank you TP, JJ and also Steve Wright for your watch and care for God’s people. I want you to know I appreciate it.

  71. Andrew says:

    Joe Focht, may have made some comments to the congregation but you can still go to the ccphilly web site and download K.P sermons. So unless you where there when he made these comments or our reading this blog, I’m not sure its that big of an announcement from the pulpit. If you really want to protect the congregation just stop advertising K.P by posting his sermons online. I think Joe is probably thinking that all the problems will go away if eventually ECFA re-instates them. If that is the case, the root cause will probably never get addressed.

  72. Kevin H says:

    Andrew,

    Michael is correct in reporting that Joe Focht said something about GFA from the pulpit this past Sunday. As Michael reported, it was somewhat restrained and Joe did make mention of withholding support, at least until they would regain membership in ECFA. So while he wasn’t real strong in his statement about GFA (and also the fact that K.P.’s messages are still on the website), the fact that he said anything at all is a much bigger step than you would normally get from most any big-time CC pastor. Especially one who is old guard and had a lot of loyalties to K.P. and GFA. And despite the relative tepidness of the statement from the pulpit and even the inclusion of the ECFA caveat, I don’t think Joe believes all will be right if GFA simply just gets back their ECFA membership.

  73. Em says:

    hard to care about this shyster’s antics today with so much sorrow and testing around us, but i caught part of a K.P. message the other day and the guy is good… what some of these pastors and others may not want to face is the backlash from condemning a man who is so “Christian,” – such a “gifted” speaker… but isn’t it time to call evil, evil and what a great opportunity is being missed to teach discernment… IMHO
    aaand, there’s always the chance that the guy is a born again one who has gone off the rails and needs to be called and that makes doing so doubly important IMNSHO

  74. Seraphim says:

    Pastor Al is spot on. The only reason Driscoll went down, was because people outside of the church took an interest in Mark Driscoll.

    Marshill would still be here today, if the local news stations, and national media didn’t get involved. Unlike KP, Mark Driscoll had a very public platform in the United States. He wrote for Washington Post, and other prominent publications. He was on CNN, FOX, Piers Morgan, and other major secular players.

    Even though GFA has more financial clout, Driscoll had more cultural clout with those outside of the church.

    So I think Micheal is right about this being the high tide of this scandal.

    That is just my opinion.

  75. Michael says:

    Driscoll went down because his financial base abandoned him.
    The inside crumbled with his own staff testifying against him.
    Pressure from the outside will only do so much…when the inside fails, it’s over.

  76. JH says:

    Don’t lose heart. I don’t think this is even close to over. I was fairly certain that the IRS would not investigate. They had a 20% staff reduction, they rarely scrutinize churches and GFA already received reporting exemption from them as a “religious order”. I had almost as little hope for the FBI. They hate investigating churches (especially during an election year) plus their financial fraud cases are more than 3 years backlogged despite (generally) limiting their cases to ones where the fraud exceeds a half million dollars.

    Then Homeland Security stepped up. They have the authority and the resources to reach from Texas to Asia to freeze assets and pursue justice. My concern is that they might stop at the half million in smurfing. My hope is that they will pursue the approx $40M that seems to go missing each year. India borders on the country that harbored Osama Bin Laden for years. Can Homeland Security afford to not look into these sketchy transfers of tens of millions a year to Asia that appear to be unaccounted for? It would seem negligent for them to cut the investigation short now that it has been brought to their attention.

    This investigation is in its infancy. Few people thought FIFA would be called to account either, until those seven unexpected arrests occurred in Switzerland. The US doesn’t even care that much about soccer. However, they do care about millions being moved across less than friendly parts of the world. The main stream media won’t be able to ignore this as it develops into possibly the largest charity fraud case ever.

    In the mean time, former employees and donors should consider civil redress. GFA, KPY and BC will not be able to conceal or deny what is uncovered during discovery. More secrets would be brought to light where the truth can sanitize and heal. Hopefully an enterprising lawyer will take note.

  77. Jim says:

    Michael,

    I hear your frustration. Now you know how I felt when I read your 50 book Packer thinks you should read link, and saw the the #2 book was authored by the former president of SGM.

  78. Andrew says:

    Kevin,

    I hear what you are saying and I guess its positive news.. I’m just picking up on the attitude from Michael where he said “no repentance needed”. I’m just wondering if any Old guard big time CCA pastor will come out and say it like it really is without trepidation. What do they really have to loose from stating the truth in a loving way? So far, I don’t recall K.P or any other leaders from GFA saying any kind of repentance was needed.

  79. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    Agreeing with Michael’s 76. I and others were getting enough leaked information from The City updates and the financial reports (even if they were glossy copy) that were publicly accessible told the tale, the leadership culture alienated its financial base internally. Even that memo from Sutton Turner leaked to Throckmorton that dates to March 2011 showed that someone at the top was worried that a consumerist/entitlement mentality in the leadership culture would lead to bad results. Prior to that cumulative crisis bad publicity from the liberal media actually made Mark Driscoll into the celebrity he was.

  80. open eyes says:

    I highly suggest that Western donors get in touch with the Foreign Contribution Agency in India and report KPY (Gospel for Asia). Stop believing the bull that this is Christian persecution in India or that reporting this man will hurt all believers in India. KPY has HURT the cause of Jesus Christ in India and it has to stop. God wants the corruption cleaned out of His church in India and if the church won’t do it then God will figure it out. It is not going to be pretty but these are the consequences of Indians not speaking up about this. Some have known about it all since the 1990’s from my sources. Only a handful of men like Gnana Robinson have spoken out but they have been ignored. These KPY types only encourage other Indian crooks to do this all over again so it really needs to be stopped.

    I would also start writing to the Indian newspapers and demand they carry this story. They have a duty to protect it’s citizens from crooks just like the government has that duty. This is something that has been done on both sides of the pond. Pressure needs to be applied on both ends to stop the bleeding. The Modi government is cracking down on foreign funds so NOW is the time to take advantage of it!!!!

    Those that have given money have to come forward. If you don’t do it that is a signal that you really don’t believe in helping the Indian people at all. Western money has protected this man and donors need to step up to the plate to undo that damage. If you really care you will do all it takes to stop this man from damaging more people in Asia. This is not just between you and God. You personally are hurting people in other countries. That is wrong on any level according to Scripture. You are responsible for the Gospel being hindered in Asia. How can any donor feel good about that?

    http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/foreign-contribution-regulation-act-new-crackdown-on-ngo-foreign-funds/

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/foreign-donors-ngos-government-radar/1/429205.html

    http://www.virtueonline.org/chennai-india-corruption-stalks-church-south-india

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/januaryweb-only/14.0.html

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