Things I Think
1. When a pastor, elder, or anyone else in the Body falls into sin, there are really only two questions we ask. Are they repentant or are they under church discipline? If they are repentant, one process begins, if they are not, they should be under church discipline which is another process entirely. Repentant does not mean I got caught and the evidence compelled me to confess…
2. If Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale had printed what I did, then I would have been here quietly and happily teaching the Anglican catechism to 1500 people. Instead, we had to carry the load that they wouldn’t. In the 21st century you can either tell the story or you can have your story told. I told it factually, without commentary. If you don’t like how I did it, do it yourself next time.
3. So when a megachurch with ten satellites loses the personality they were built on…what happens now? Please spare me the pious remarks about Jesus being the personality…He wasn’t who the banks were considering when loan apps were made and He visits small churches too. Whether the personality falls or dies, the aftermath almost demands another celebrity…
4. There is no more bizarre, anti- Christian ritual in evangelicalism than the expunging of a man’s life work from the church and the internet when he falls. Coy has been deleted from the CCA website and they are wiping the CCFTL site as fast as they can. I guess he should be thankful that they have no access to the Book of Life…
5. No one redeemed by the grace of God and the blood of the Lamb rejoices to hear news like we heard this weekend, nor do they enjoy writing about them. Yes, we know we are sinners as well, and we could fall into shame too. There, that should cover about 100 inane, but pious comments…
6. Blaming the women involved for this tragedy marks you as an ignoramus of Biblical proportions…
7. Sin isn’t bad because it offends us. It’s bad because it offends a holy God and does damage to those created in His image. If we were less offended and more broken, we would speak as we should.
8. God’s truth is intrinsically true…it does not depend on truthful men for it’s veracity.
9. Damage control is an unbiblical concept. Confess all the damage, embrace all the damage, and give all the damage over to God.
10. Grace does not negate consequences…it transforms the purpose of the consequences from retributive to redemptive.Ā
phoenixpreacher@gmail.com
“So when a megachurch with ten satellites loses the personality they were built on…what happens now?”
Michael, that question is the best breakdown of the situation I’ve read thus far!
Thank you, Monax…it is a question that all those in “multi-site” should be asking.
Thank you. Good words….. we really have a lot to think and pray about.
Paige,
We have way too much to digest.
I’ve asked some friends to write some things to help us and we will have those later this week.
Well-written thoughts, Michael.
I did read in the comments section on the CCFL site that they pulled Bob’s teachings due to the fact people were going to use the information to mock and parody what has taken place, They are carefully considering how to move forward in this area.
CCFTL expunging all evidences of BC from their history does come off as a bit heavy handed. There could be legal reasons for this occurring though, for instance, if BC is no longer owner of the CCFTL name, then it makes sense that perhaps they need to separate the two entities? Just thinking out loud.
I do wish that all the people hurt in this situation find peace in the Prince of Peace alone.
Sin sucks. But He ALONE paid the price.
Amen!
Now call Reuters and CBS, I gave them your phone number.
There is no more bizarre, anti- Christian ritual in evangelicalism than the expunging of a manās life work from the church and the internet when he falls. Coy has been deleted from the CCA website and they are wiping the CCFTL site as fast as they can. I guess he should be thankful that they have no access to the Book of Lifeā¦
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I’m not sure if the board or Bob Coy himself asked to expunge the work. I agree it is bizarre. I’m imagining it is the board that did it but I am not really sure. Coy could have asked to have them removed as well.
I remember when an associate pastor at a big Calvary in philly left and it wasn’t too long after that all his recorded sermons were removed from the church website. It seemed kind of drastic. I was told it was not a sin issue that he left but rather he got “burned out” . The interesting thing is the leaders were not able to tell me who removed his sermons or why after I asked the question. The lack of answering my seemingly easy question seems to point to a more difficult issue.
” Repentant does not mean I got caught and the evidence compelled me to confessā¦”
Exactly! Repentance is brokenness. When one seeks forgiveness from God the assurance is God will forgive the sin(s), there should be no further expectations.
RiBo,
I saw that. š
So let me get in here before things get too wild and another thread needs to be shut down. š
As to #3, I attend a different CC megachurch (thankfully with no satellites, though). As I have stated several times here before, it is not my first choice of churches but this is where life and family circumstances have me now. But there is a lot of good done there and I have never known of anything nearly compelling enough from an abuse or corruption standpoint that would cause me to move on.
I can’t tell you how many times I have heard other attenders say things like, “I don’t know what I’d ever do without Pastor.” “I fear for what will come of the church if Pastor ever dies or would leave.” “Pastor sure has done a tremendous job in building up this church.” Even to the silliest of things like, “Pastor sure does have the magic touch because the babies never cry when he does a baby dedication.” (Which is blatantly untrue.)
Now a couple clarifications. Certainly not everyone at the church talks like this. And I also don’t think the pastor carries himself in a manner to try to draw this type of adulation to himself, at least as far as I can see. But it sure does exist to a considerable degree. It’s America and so many of us want a celebrity we can worship. It’s a sad commentary as to what church is for some.
PN,
Thank you, my friend.
I tuned into the podcast of CCFL. Two minutes of listening to the sermon were instructive. I was pretty sure that if we knew about the breaking news then there must have been many there who also knew. This kind of news leaks every time. Something in the tone of the presentation. My first thought was to ask if it was like this all the time. The sermon was a presentation not a message. It was acted not preached at least the bits I heard. I wondered if that was what is needed to bring a crowd of thousands.
Behind the scenes was a painful wrenching mess. I could not help wondering why some father did not step up and say that we are in pain tonight. Then I remembered, 1000 jobs are at stake. That was what struck me most painfully when Swaggart fell. So many people who had their livelihood wrapped up in his work fell with him.
Still, I wondered so many things. I hope the church will do well. I hope they walk through this with little collateral damage. I hope the family is given grace.
And put the teachings BACK up. They are not nullified by today’s revelations. They might even be more helpful.
Big brother….amen to all 10….well said!!! You did well.
” hear what you’re saying here. Pastor Bob’s messages are so full of truth and challenge and opportunity to grow. Life for so many of us would be entirely different if we didn’t come in contact with the teaching ministry of Bob Coy.
While we navigate this season of – well wrapping our brains around how to move forward, we took steps to protect Pastor Bob from those that would mis-use his content and use it to parody him during a time that his family and him need to heal (we’ve already seen malicious use of his photos and vicious rumor mongering in other corners of the Internet).
We plead with you to be patient with us as we navigate forward and, at milestones along the way, look back and assess the environment to take measured and wise steps toward restoring content.
Please pray for the men that will continue to teach as we move forward and pray for healing in the Coy family. Would you do that with us?”
Thank you my friend.
CCFL Communications Team
Thank you, Dusters…I can’t even describe how insane the last two days have been.
PLEASE NOTE!!!!!! YOU ARE HERE!! you have been misses my friend!
I might add that David did not confess either. He got caught. Repentance usually comes after some form of confrontation. Mine and yours included.
They may not have wanted to call this “vicious rumor mongering”…that won’t turn out well for them.
āSo when a megachurch with ten satellites loses the personality they were built onā¦what happens now?ā
They were there to hear Coy. Anyone with common sense knows this. They weren’t going to hear Pastor Nobody Jones.
The surrounding churches in the area will likely see increased attendance in the coming months.
If we used an Old Testament definition of marriage this wouldn’t have been a problem.
King David had many wives and concubines.
“They may not have wanted to call this āvicious rumor mongeringāā¦that wonāt turn out well for them.”
Ruh roh, don’t fire up the Phoenix! š
I know the spiritual and emotional toll this takes on you….which in turn causes physical problems…still praying for you big brother
Michael, at least they did address the removal of the material which should put to rest some speculation. This isn’t the only place this is being covered as well so maybe those comments weren’t directed here??
Bob coy is not a king
Bob Coy’s radio program just came on locally a few weeks ago. He seemed to be more of an entertainer than a preacher. That’s just my take. I wouldn’t be interested in listening. I think I would starve listening to that on a regular basis.
Actually I appreciate the addressing of the removal of content. I just don’t trust it. The content is no more damning today than it was last Monday. And presumably the internet is filled with his content. To say you don’t want enemies to use it is to invite people to wonder why.
But maybe they mean it.
Dusty, I’m a misses? (your #19)
David was only the illustration.
The assertion is that almost no one confesses anything prior to being confronted or challenged. That is true of all of us.
“Bob Coyās radio program just came on locally a few weeks ago. He seemed to be more of an entertainer than a preacher. Thatās just my take. I wouldnāt be interested in listening. I think I would starve listening to that on a regular basis”
People will hate us for saying it, but this is totally true.
I remember hearing him talking on some KWVE program years ago, and I just couldn’t get into it. It seemed like he was trying to be a stand up comedian. My concerns about that were confirmed when I saw him recently at a pastor’s conference, and he was telling some joke or humorous statement every third sentence. I am not exaggerating. And the crowd was of course laughing on perfect timing, every time. It was very distracting, and I couldn’t get anything from it.
I have met a lot of people that enjoy his messages, and always, without exception, they always bring up how darn funny he is. That, to me, is a problem.
Nothing wrong with being humorous, but in this case, it exposed a deeper problem, at least that is what I thought years ago (I know people might say, yeah right!, but that is true)
BD…..yeah, ‘after-the-fact’ explanations always seem suspect. Then what, purge everything that he wrote about marriage? Fidelity? Sin?
“almost no one confesses anything prior to being confronted or challenged.”
Well I did and I’m probably considered a godless heathen by most in CC, but had a conscience and did the tough thing and manned up.
These “specially anointed” are pretenders. They don’t really trust God, they trust their paycheck and pulpit.
Dread, I’m just posting what I read. Since we can’t determine their motives I will give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. I am uncomfortable attributing motives to people I know let alone those across the country whom I don’t. I’m sure much more will come out as days and weeks move by.
That’s how and why I know much of evangelicalism is b.s. When push comes to shove…watch the actions not the words.
PN, good to see you! I actually thought about listening to a message or two to see how he taught on these topics but they had been removed. There are scores of people who know the answers as they have heard the messages. Maybe they’ll share here….. Hope you’re well!!
Please note
Been missed
Thanks, Erunner! I’m good, hope you are well, too!
Dusty, just teasing 8)
My heart is with the little lambs of CCFL who were stumbled by his actions. How many nameless faces will walk away from the faith. My heart is especially with Diane and children.
Let judgment begin in the house of God.
May our next CC Conference be entitled: “Sackcloth and Ashes.” May we be like the disciples in the Upper Room when Jesus told them one of them that one of them would betray Him, and they responded by saying: “Lord is it I?” Well… I ask, is it?… Is it?
May we search deep within ourselves. May we seek to be the least of all men. May we be satisfied to just pastor the churches that we have and not look for more. May we carry the burden of the “stricter judgment” with us at all times. May we be broken men.
May we pray for the Body at CCFTL and Diane and Family, Bob’s true, painful and honest confession and repentance, (With great height comes a greater fall.) and for mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. But for today, it is a day of deep mourning and reflection.
In the words of Forrest Gump: “That’s all I have to say about that.”
Beautiful, Jeff.
Hi e-brother
hi nonnie(((hugs)))
Hi Dusty. So good to “see” you here. Hugs back!
Gary,
“Bob Coyās radio program just came on locally a few weeks ago. He seemed to be more of an entertainer than a preacher. ”
I said the other day that replacing Coy should not be difficult. In fact I said that untrained funny man preachers like him are a dime a dozen
I also think it is funny that people are concerned because “the works of Bob Coy” have been taken down. I am more concerned that the works of untrained pastors are put up in the first place.
My pastor has been a pastor for 40 yrs and he has 2 PhDs and he doesn’t post his stuff.
Thanks, Michael Newnham, for reminding us again that raw truth and Christian faith are friends, not enemies.
MLD wrote: “I said the other day that replacing Coy should not be difficult. In fact I said that untrained funny man preachers like him are a dime a dozen”
I guess the day would come that MLD would say something that I agree completely with š
I was in a Bible study group once where a couple explained that they could not be “officers” of the church because they were both divorced and remarried. They thought that disqualified them from being elected to certain roles in the congregation. These roles range from Elder or Deaconess to auditor or children’s ministry service. There were certain roles they felt they could do such as serving as ushers, but felt they were not qualified due to what they considered past sin to hold certain positions in the church. This was a personal decision they had made. I always respected them in their honesty and attempt at righteous living.
I would not challenge them or anyone else on their personal convictions on a readiness to serve or the impact of past sins on their current situation. Our faith is about grace and forgiveness and that forgiveness is for past, present, and future sins. Sin is to convict us and sin is to be wrestled with in our conscience. Sin is between us and the Lord and we need to be ready to account for it. Grace and forgiveness are the blessings of our faith, but we are still responsible for our actions. We may fall short, and forgiveness is there for us when we do, but that does not remove our responsibility.
I also think the Bible is clear that certain roles in the church require an extra level of holiness (for lack of a better word.) I don’t mean that I think pastors must be sinless, none are, none of any of us are. Rather it is a special position that carries additional requirements and responsibilities per Bible teachings. I would welcome anyone into the church who has repented their sin and asked for forgiveness. That’s not the issue. The question for me is if you would let them back in the pulpit.
So do we treat this current issue like a star athlete who has an injury and we’re all rooting for him to recover and get back in the game? We’ve got the counseling and the assistance and the regret and concession. Gotta touch all the bases and get him spiritually healed. We just pray he’ll soon be back in charge and fighting the Holy fight.
I pray, as I think most all of us do, that this former pastor will get things straight with both the Lord and his family and congregation. But is he now disqualified from leadership? Or does all the praise about his great works and powerful representation for God trump that and we just want to see him recover and get back in the game of saving souls? After all, it is reported that he was very skilled at that.
That may be the main issue. That modern Christianity, especially as practiced in the large churches with celebrity pastors, is really more about the “business” of evangelism?
Again I say each must look to their own conscience with the teachings of the Word and the assistance of the Holy Spirit to guide them as they examine their own hearts and decide what is best for them and the flock. But woe to the person who must eventually meet Holy justice if they are just in it for the money, the glory, the power, or even just the adoration. It isn’t the NFL. This isn’t a game. This is literally life and death.
MLD. There is no honor in not posting stuff either. If he has that much knowledge, why not share?
I sit at work lately listening to sermons (gasp). It’s hard to know who is worth listening to, so if he’s so good, he ought to share his knowledge.
I do agree about “untrained” people but think training comes in many different ways.
It is sad day any way you look at it.
Regarding temptation, I was at a marriage conference over the weekend and I heard one thing that is good for any man to hear. It was a quote from David Robinson, the former NBA player. He was often approached by women, as are probably many athletes. He was also known to rudely brush them aside. When asked about it, he said something to the effect of, “The only woman I worry about offending is my wife.”
I will never know what it is to be a famous athlete, nor what it is to be a celebrity pastor. I’m sure that with that rarified air there are pressures that many of us wouldn’t be able to withstand (obviously, not all of them are able to withstand them either), but I do know that temptation happens to all of us. Every time I see or hear of a “celebrity” pastor falling, and seeing just how public the whole thing becomes, I shudder. I think, “there but for the grace of God . . .”. May God give me the strength to stand. May I always be utterly devoted to my wonderful wife.
London,
2 points,
1.) He does share his knowledge… every Sunday in church.
2.) I didn’t say if he were good or not, but according to your question – those who post think THEY are good.
My pastor once told me that he prepares his sermons as he would a gourmet meal. The meal is meant to be consumed by the people it was intended for at the time it was prepared. Not to be used as scraps or leftovers at a later time.
I’m posting this for a friend…a thoughtful and good friend.
“I do not agree at all with your # 6. I come into this with a heart for both sides, as this is an issue close to my heart. But our society seems to be going out of its way to absolve females of any responsibility or fault in sexual sin. First I want to say that I condemn neither party, and I am praying for true repentance and restoration for all involved.
That said, we have raised a generation of girls who are being taught that they should dress provocatively, be sexually forward, and not expect any repercussions from their actions. They can aspire to be pole dancers, strippers, porn stars and that is great in todayās society and celebrated. They also are told that men are evil and that if they receive unwanted sexual advances, then the men are pigs and horrible for that. Women are almost as susceptible to sexual sin and porn as men, If you donāt believe that, then look at romance novel sales in the US.
In this light, should we not blame both (or all) sinners equally? Donāt all parties deserve to be given the same public or private chance to come clean and be restored? Why are the women not to blame? I have been just as able to be in sexual sin as any man, or my husband or anyone. I have sat in a restaurant, and watched and listened to women flirt with and talk about my husband. I find it funny and a bit annoying, but women so often will scheme and manipulate and work at getting a foothold on a man, and they are not very secretive about it. (It is even funnier when they realize I am his wife and heard and saw everything)
I am not calling for public shame and a witch hunt, but please donāt candy coat a womanās ability to sin, because of some misplaced chivalry. It was a woman who was called out to Jesus for sexual sin, not the man. Todayās church is the same, it just has it backwards. All parties need to Go to Jesus and stop their sinning and be forgiven and restored. Especially if it was another person in ministry.”
I’m tired of seeing all the Facebook posts of support and prayer for Bob Coy. He needs prayer, but the people who were damaged by this and his family need it more.
There is a systemic problem in CC, and until they acknowledge it, these kinds of things will continue to happen. Hopefully this is high profile enough that the shockwaves will jar Calvary Chapel Association into addressing the root problem.
#’s 5, 9, and 10ā¦..say them again and again please.
I marvel at the inability of my people to sift through the spiritual narrative and do what is needed MOST? Shaking my head, confounded, interceding for all sides, wishing there didn’t have to be sides, grieving, believing that the Spirit is speaking and can be heard by those without an agenda.
Lord bring down the agendas! I cannot help but think there is no room for them in Your kingdom? Except for ones that can usher in a genuine healing by Your Spirit.
Amen.
#’s 5, 9, & 10!!
“The mouth of the adultress is a deep pit and he who is being judged by the Lord will fall into it”… Proverbs 22:14….. I don’ t base my ‘theology’ such as it is, on Proverbs, but this is a very thought provoking verse. Certainly applicable.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/07/bob-coy-calvary-chapel_n_5105873.html
Michael is quoted in this article.
Am I the only guy whose life was destroyed by his dad’s adultery?
Am I the only one who saw mom’s devastated look when she found dad’s porn?
It ain’t arrogance that says this stuff (especially whatever happened and will happen to Mrs. Coy, to hundreds of innocent employees there) is HORRIBLE and demonically destructive and therefore I vow to fight and do my best to never do likewise–it’s the fear of God.
I’m afraid of that Man Johnny Cash sings of, and I’m afraid of that millstone He talked about.
Michael is also quoted over the pond:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2598519/Megachurch-pastor-resigns-moral-failing.html
“There is a systemic problem in CC,”
Yes, but certainly not confined to CC. Every denomination and large group of churches has this “problem”. Some deal with it publicly, some do not, some cover it up as long as possible, and there is still a great deal that we will never know about.
The one thing I KNOW that I can do about it is do all I can to avoid a similar fall.
I think its possible that Bob Coy just wanted out! I honestly think maybe he had enough of the hypocrisy of the entire CC organization that he slipped up enough to get caught in a weird way on purpose. I am not defending Coy in what he did but I just think he hit a threshold where he couldn’t take the pressure anymore. Sin, you bet but its not just adultery, etc..
I believe it is the pressure in CC for senior pastors to practice the Moses Model that sets the pastor above all that was not sitting well with him and whether consciously or unconsciously he allowed himself to get involved with sin knowing he would get caught and it would end this for him. I honestly think Bob needed out. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Bob Coy should ever return to pulpit ministry again but I am hoping that maybe someday he will become an outspoken critic of the unbiblical Moses Model. I can only hope that God would use him that way in the future.
JTK, I hear you! I saw my mother suffer so much for so many years. She and my dad reconciled, she forgave him and their final 20 years were “good.” But after he died, she told me that although she knew the Lord had forgiven him and she had forgiven him, she never got over the hurt and humiliation. We all suffered from it. Adultery damages so many lives in so many ways.
I believe that is why I am so infuriated when I read these posts calling out their concern for Bob Coy, rather that for his wife, children, the people and children in the congregation and church school that are so wounded and hurt right now.
Hardly, Jtk. You are in some very good company of victims and casualties of one person’s choices to ignore the Lord, the Word and the Holy Spirit’s promptings to ‘resist the devil”….. I suspect the bone pile is too large to count.
Andrew wrote: “I honestly think maybe he had enough of the hypocrisy of the entire CC organization that he slipped up enough to get caught in a weird way on purpose”
The story is that it’s been going on since 2005, and he was excitedly looking forward to next month’s baptisms. I know you’d like to think the best of the situation, but there is no reason to believe what you’re saying here. Bob Coy was one of the top 3 names in CC, and had all eyes on him at every pastors conference that he spoke at.
DavidM, the systemic problem I was referring to is the Moses model of leadership that allows for no accountability. I have firsthand experience with how this leaves the pastor exposed to not just this sin, but others and leaves in its wake damaged sheep.
CC continues to say that it is just “disgruntled bitter, people” who complain about the Moses model and it isn’t really a problem-as if anyone should be surprised that wounded sheep behave badly . As long as they continue to keep their head in the sand on this issue, problems will continue and people will continue to be hurt.
Amen, Nonnie….. it is the ultimate humiliation for a wife to be betrayed. Damaging in very deep ways. Choosing to forgive does not repair the gash.
And, yes, please, let’s stop referring to Bob Coy as “pastor Bob”. He chose to throw that title away and thoughtlessly roll over thousands of trusting souls, not the least of whom are his wife and offspring. Their lives will never be the same. Utter disorientation and devastation.
that should be “sounded sheep SOMETIMES behave badly.”
“And, yes, please, letās stop referring to Bob Coy as āpastor Bobā. He chose to throw that title away and thoughtlessly roll over thousands of trusting souls, not the least of whom are his wife and offspring. Their lives will never be the same. Utter disorientation and devastation”
That’s what I said in another place, too. He’s not “pastor Bob” anymore. He’s Bob Coy. Even the CC FL website removes the pastor title.
#10 is so good and such a rare, right thought.
It makes my eye twitch when I hear (what I believe to be The Worst Phrase in Christendom) “well, we’d rather make a mistake on the side of Grace.”
Every err is an err on the side of Grace, the point is what God does with it and where our aim really is set . . . sometimes when we think we ‘err’ on the side of Grace, we miss every single good purpose of Grace. Sometimes we bypass God’s Grace entirely and comfort ourselves with our own indulgence. Yet God’s Grace is so big, He will even wake us up from and redeem that.
Very sobering time. I have benefited greatly from Babylon’s Dread’s Biblical view of this as well. We need more of that Spiritual Fathering.
DennisH, OK, I see what you’re saying. Yes, the “Moses Model” only serves to artificially elevate pastors over others and fosters an illusion of being “God’s anointed”.
The story is that itās been going on since 2005, and he was excitedly looking forward to next monthās baptisms. I know youād like to think the best of the situation, but there is no reason to believe what youāre saying here. Bob Coy was one of the top 3 names in CC, and had all eyes on him at every pastors conference that he spoke at.
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Andy, what you speak of is exactly why I think the way I am thinking. The guy was at the top and there was probably pressure for him to be the next leader in the entire CC association since Chuck died. This and the Moses Model expectation for a senior pastor was too much for him and he hit a threshold where it was too much and he either got caught on purpose or had to confess since his conscious was bothering him too much.
Hey RiBo,
Your site says “Server Down” and then when you get through it says, “Access Denied.”
Please exegete with proper hermeneutic these “principles” which I fail to reconciliate with my Holy Bible. Thank you.
“Very sobering time. I have benefited greatly from Babylonās Dreadās Biblical view of this as well. We need more of that Spiritual Fathering.” I completely agree!
i guess you closed down the other thread, it was getting to close to home huh? you still didn’t answer my question, you just ran away, so why are you single, always been single? is the reason you’re single because you struggle with sexual attraction toward the same sex? or do you claim to be a eunuch? How do you channel your sexual urges? are you engaging in masturbatory practices that are displeasing to God, when was the last time you viewed pornographic materials of any kind? answer truthfully now! remember lying is a sin!
TO Hugh, Public information on the net is an awesome thing. I am doing my hw and sin sniffing, to give Michael a dose of his medicine. Kudos to YOU brother, You NAILED it. Sin is sin and Michael Newnham is VERY VERY GUILTY.
Bob, Diane Christian and Kaitlyn COY are my FAMILY IN CHRIST. You are HURTING them, especially the kids. Let the HEATHEN, sons of SATAN, SECULAR CIRCUS run with the story. Why are you causing division, you sire of NOT of GOD! REPENT!
“Damage control is an unbiblical concept. Confess all the damage, embrace all the damage, and give all the damage over to God.”
Yes. God can and does heal and restore damaged lives. New beginnings are possible.
Sadly, the modern church, too often, aborts the healing process with worldly methods of damage control.
JTK, my dad was unfaithful to mom…..you are not alone….have all the feelings you are having/remembering…..
As for the blaming women issue…
First, they are indeed responsible for their own behavior and sometimes there are seriously wanton characters out their doing what they do. However, usually men of position and power are doubly guilty of gaining some form of influence over a woman by virtue of their position and personality. Sexual sin in pastors almost always involves the misuse of the power of position.
On the other hand, do not forget the irrationality of a man throwing away his life’s work over an affair. The power of these relationships to rob the participants of reasonable function is beyond imagination. A fifty year old will suddenly be 15.
As to the question about being victimized. I grew up in the household of a serial adulterous stepdad and my natural father was married 7 times. So yes I join the person in understanding the pain and anger of those realities.
And we all know that sin makes you stupid.
Echoing BD & the last few posters’ thoughts of this. Our family was ruined by this same behavior.
Also agreeing that a position of power even more responsibility (so does society, hence sexual harassment laws are harsher for bosses, male OR female)….
There are two types of people. Those who whipped, tortured and pounded nails into Jesus hands and those who had compassion, mercy and wept over him. Michael, check yourself before you wreck yourself. Your heart and soul are very dark and evil. Bob Coy while he made a HUGE mistake, will leave a legacy of amazing Bibically sound teachings, has led THOUSANDS to Christ and has furthered the kingdom and glorified God in way we have yet to quantity. You will always be remembered as the unemployed wanna be preacher with zero credentials and inaccurate slanderous information that slung mud at a beloved preacher that is STILL loved, embraced, and given the chance, 100% restored. Praying for your dark unGodly soul.
Lets see. Coy confesses, his board fires him, his church strips all of his teachings from their site, they rewrite the history of CCFTL, remove his pictures, release a statement of confirmation to the public, his wife leaves with his kids and this is Newnham’s problem for a paragraph of accurate reporting?
Daughter….Michael is reporting what Bob Coy has admitted to. Period.
Yet you are judging his heart AND his soul?
Perhaps reread your Bible on judging others.
By the way, Michael’s credentials far exceed what you are able to gather in your google-fu.
I get that you’re hurting, but judging Michael’s heart and soul won’t lead to healing. Many of us that have been around for years know it far better than the caricature you’re trying to paint.
well said, Please Note.
“Michael, check yourself before you wreck yourself”
Last I checked, it was Bob Coy that wrecked himself, for almost 10 years went through affairs and pornography, and didn’t care if it was going to destroy people’s lives.
And that is now Michael’s fault?
Might as well also blame the 10,000 news sources that have picked up the story. They too are to blame. Coy is clean.
Wow, things like this bring out all the nuts!
BD’s #20 is right.
Your #52 is correct. I had some of the same reaction to it. I still lay the majority of the blame on Coy, but the women can’t be absolved of some guilt in the matter. Whoever let you post that they communicated it well.
People really need to think about the flaw in the satellite churches with the fall of their main attraction. I never have thought much of that whole thing.
By the way, I am glad you are shutting the threads down when they get too crazy lately.
Don’t let the haters get to you, brother!
Newnham has YET to provide any evidence! What he is reporting is INNACURATE. How is he glorifying God with this? How is he furthering the kingdom? What is HIS SIN? Why doesnt he confess and repent of it??? Coy is with HIS FAMILY – HEALING AND RESTORING!
The posts of “Daughter of the Most High” at 81 and 88, sound like the ramblings of a 12 year old groupie following a boy band that someone else doesn’t care for the music of.
This fall of Bob Coy is worldwide news, and he won’t be back anytime soon (if ever). It’s that bad.
Michael, I look forward each week to the “Things I Think” post and pass along quotes to others almost weekly. Today’s did not disappoint! #9 and #10 are spot on.
Thank you for your bold honesty. It is a refreshment to this pastor’s soul.
Daughter of……
The evidence is Coy’s confession and what his church did with it over the weekend. You’re looking a little to far west to fix the blame. In law enforcement a confession is your best evidence. What part of that is unclear to you? I understand that you are hurt but let’s not confuse the hard facts and the additional facts that will come out in the near future.
Daughter….why do you think Coy is no longer with the church?
What is he healing and restoring FROM.
You make no mention of why he is seeking restoration. It’s like if you make no mention of the sin, it didn’t happen. Do you not think it was something egregious if it ended a 29 year pastoral career?
Consider those own questions of yourself, such as how are you furthering the kingdom attacking Michael?
Michael is reporting, you are attacking, yet in your view, what you’re doing is okay?
Sorry you’re hurting, praying for you.
“Newnham got his information from Alex Grenier”
This has got to be a troll, yanking everyone’s chain.
But in the event that it is legit: CNN, FOX, Reuters, AP, local, national, and international news all reported on Bob Coy’s fall. And none of them asked Grenier for a single piece of information. Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale told them all directly, that Coy fell.
Frosted – I get that. Coy is WRONG. But my admonishment is towards Newnham…. where is what he is doing in the scriptures? What is his motive for this? How is this glorifying God? The Coys are my FAMILY IN CHRIST. I KNOW THEM. Can you understand this? Why Tar and Feather them FURTHER? Why is Newnhams MOTIVE but his skeletons are ABOUT TO BE EXPOSED in a huge way?????? Grenier has sold him down the river!
D of the Most High, Michael never reports anything that has not been well documented and confirmed by many people. His name is on the line and he takes these things seriously. He does not do this for fun….He pays a high cost for his calling.
“But my admonishment is towards Newnhamā¦. where is what he is doing in the scriptures?”
If Michael tears this blog post down, it won’t change the fact that Coy is done.
Your weeping should be for the victims of Coy’s deception that has been running for a decade.
D of the Most High, are you threatening Michael?
Hey PN, how was your winter? we were colder here most of the winter that it was in Alaska
CNN no less. http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/07/megachurch-pastor-resigns-citing-moral-failing/?hpt=hp_t2
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being My priest. (NASB) Hosea 4:6
“. . . priests instruct for a price, and her prophets divine for money, . . . yet they lean on the Lord saying, ‘Is not the Lord in our midst . . . (NASB) Micah 3:11
Yes Coy sinned but Michael is making claims (by Grenier) that were never released to the general public. This is where Michaels credibility is shot.
What i meant is the details – were never released and this is where Michael is wrong.
Sue, Michael never goes by one person’s word. He checks and double checks the facts.
Dusty – what exactly is his calling? Can you support it scripturally? My Bible ways that the two last things Jesus commanded his followers to do was to 1) share the gospel 2) make disciples. How is this being accomplished here again?
this is a classic example of ‘don’t look at the wolf in sheep’s clothing, look at that sheep with the spot on his coat. “
“Dusty ā what exactly is his calling? Can you support it scripturally? My Bible ways that the two last things Jesus commanded his followers to do was to 1) share the gospel 2) make disciples. How is this being accomplished here again?”
Warning about wolves is a part of discipling people. If a pastor spent that much time lying to his family and thousands of people every week, then the Bible says to mark that person, no matter who they are.
Dusty – Well he has been asked for evidence several times and has not produced it. I know for fact, that the details were never and will never be released to the general public. So it begs the question, if not from Alex Grenier who has the reputation of manipulating the truth for his personal gain, than where did he get it? He claims “sources and documents” – and he has had problems with plagerism in the past (Google it)/
I believe my request is very fair. Please tell me if I am out of line?
Sue, and is that what coy was doing? nope…..he was slowly killing his flock and family….
“I know for fact, that the details were never and will never be released to the general public”
The details will be put out there. If not by Michael, by someone else. It will be all out in the open.
OK and Michael is free from sin? Can we blog about his sin? Would this be ok?
Sue, if the facts are correct why do you care where or who gave Michael the facts…my guess, someone from your church…..who is as sick to their stomach as I am. and yes, you are out of line.
Dusty – Grenier gave him the information. He made up the details.
thanks Andy
Dusty – Coy resigned, Michael is reporting he got fired. Do you not see the discrepancies?
Sue, now you are speculating. and spreading untruth.
No. I am not. Ask him to produce the evidence and silence me for once and for all:)
Notice, that the first thing these “defenders” want to do is have someone else confess some “sin’.
Funny, yesterday they were screaming about all the sin sniffing going on.
Would that make you all feel better about Coy’s moral failures?
To have someone else confess some sin?
Need to sniff a bit of sin yourself and ferret out someone?
I am like MLD. I have little sympathy for adulterers.
I have far more sympathy for people in other sexual sins than I do for adulterers.
May be a failing of my thinking process, but there it is.
Was he at the church meeting on Sunday at 4? At the meeting on Wednesday afternoon? Has he been in Florida this week? Does he know the Coys? Does he have friends that attend/work at CCFTL?
Resigned/fired who cares – one usually will resigned just before being fired to save face. …
I see. You worship Michael. Be well. Done here.
“Ask him to produce the evidence and silence me for once and for all”
This conversation will look very silly in the future, when everything is laid out clearly and it isn’t just some generic “moral failure”.
There are countless news sources that are calling it adultery. Michael didn’t make that up. It is all over. Now if you want to claim that international news sources are using Michael as their source, then you have a much bigger view of Michael’s influence than he himself would attest to having.
Andy, Is Michael not an adulterer and fornicator?
Derek, I’m with you about adulterers,….there are animals who mate for life, how much better should a Christian do with the Holy Spirit living in them.
Andy,
When their idols get struck down many strike out in the same way they accuse others of.
Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Sue Michael in not an adulterer and fornicator! why are you?
“Andy, Is Michael not an adulterer and fornicator?”
I don’t have the foggiest. He might be.
I know that Bob Coy is. For a decade. While he was preaching from the pulpit, that people should examine themselves, to see if they be in the faith.
Dusty – and you know this how? No I am not.
Derek wrote: “When their idols get struck down many strike out in the same way they accuse others of”
Yep. This is not shocking at all. This is the ENABLING thing that causes pastors to be enriched, worshiped, and lifted above measure, to the detriment of the sheep and the Gospel.
Andy – God is already dealing with Coy. Whats Newnmans angle? Did God ask him to do this?
“God is already dealing with Coy”
It’s only just begun, methinks.
“Whats Newnmans angle? Did God ask him to do this?”
Maybe God did ask him to do this. Pray and ask (James 1:5).
yet you accuse your brothers whom you don’t know…..
Andy – Can you support that scripturally since I have trouble with extra biblical revelations?
Dusty – did I accuse or question?
“Andy ā Can you support that scripturally since I have trouble with extra biblical revelations?”
Ephesians 5:11 is your Biblical citation.
And keep in mind, that a person should be an adulterer for 10 years while inhabiting the pulpit, is also an extra biblical revelation.
yes, God called Michael to run this blog.
Dusty – can you support that scripturally? Joseph Smith and Prophet Mohammed both claim extra biblical revelations I cannot reconcile in the Holy Sciptures. How do you know it was from God? per 2 Corinthians 11:14
136 where do you get “ten years” from when details where and will not be released to the generl public???
136 Can you find a verse that cites a blog should be written about a fallen brother? Does God not love Bob? Will God not forgive Bob? Why hurt his family?
“where do you get āten yearsā from when details where and will not be released to the generl public???”
Not from Michael and not from Alex. And I don’t expect CC FL to say it either.
1 Timothy 5:24. Just be patient.
Dusty,
This isn’t edifying for you and she isn’t worth debating.
Derek – paying for you and your car troubles. Be well.
“Can you find a verse that cites a blog should be written about a fallen brother?”
No blogs in the Bible at all. It’s under the general heading of communication. Ephesians 5:11 is the verse here.
“Does God not love Bob?”
God loves Bob so much, that He gave His Son.
“Will God not forgive Bob?”
God has already forgiven Bob if Bob has confessed to God (1 John 1:9)
“Why hurt his family?”
Why did Bob hurt his family? Answer that question, first. Since I answered all of yours.
Wow… this is some sad stuff.
There is no need to lash out, particularly at a brother who has labored in some of the worst trenches I have seen in the years I have been reading the blog. Not once in that time, did Michael ever report anything that has not been verified, nor did he ever make an unfounded accusation in the moment.
I have. On this blog and was dealt with appropriately for it.
What that did was make me appreciate the folks, brother and sisters, who minister faithfully to the hurt and disillusioned here and on other blogs.
Bob Coy had been revealed to be a sinner. Period. He has not saved anyone, nor has he caused thousands of people to seek Christ. No one on this earth has. That office is for the Spirit alone and He chooses who He does that work through.
Bob is in our spiritual family, too. I prayed for him and his family today and for all of the CCFTL network of churches.
But he is pastor no longer. He is someone who has lost his way and needs to get back into fellowship with God. We, in any sinful circumstance, would need to do the same. The road back to the pulpit is not the focus, nor should it be. The focus should be Jesus and anything that comes after, is up to God and His good will.
I know that for myself. Adultery ripped my family apart, ruined my marriage, and destroyed several lives. Only a focus on God helped heal me and my daughter.
Wow Dusty “this is a classic example of ādonāt look at the wolf in sheepās clothing, look at that sheep with the spot on his coat. ā Very good. Good to ‘see’ you.
Sue Gambler, I’ve known Michael for over 25 years. Yes, I believe God did ‘ask’ Michael to ‘do this’ blog. It is a place of truth. Sometimes it’s a place of contention, anger and strong diverse opinions by various posters as well as Michael. This is America. We can practice free speech. Is Michael a sinner? Why yes. As am I, but we are not actively practicing repetitive sin and using whatever minimal power we have to cover it or excuse it.
This blog is a safe place for wounded souls to speak of their experiences and ask the questions that are not allowed at the institutions that repeatedly harm naive souls.
Many of the posters and lurkers at this blog are folks who have been deeply harmed by involvement at various Calvary Chapel churches. I am one of them. I am the former wife of a long time CC pastor who carried on adulterous affairs while still preaching on Sundays and Wednesday and making major decisions for a large church. He was finally forced to ‘resign’, when faced with being ‘fired’ when evidence of his misdeeds became undeniable.
This is a sadly familiar repeating pattern amongst CCs and other denominations.
“This is a sadly familiar repeating pattern amongst CCs and other denominations”
And that is because of the enabling of the congregation, like what you are seeing here.
They have an attachment to the pastor, that ended up being unsafe spiritually. They felt a security, an energy, a vibe, at their church and with their pastor, and now that it’s all over, it’s like suffering a death in the family.
But Jesus lives.
Sue Gambler,
“Well he has been asked for evidence several times and has not produced it. I know for fact, that the details were never and will never be released to the general public.”
I think Richard Nixon said the same thing. Do you not think that CCFL is capable of leaking information.
Let me ask you this – since you seem to be an insider who knows what has and has not been released – why don’t you answer Micheal’s claims point by point. Tell us what is wrong with his claim other than someone didn’t tell you first.
And if you have the real story… well, we are willing to listen.
It is often said that hurt people hurt people. The people of this church are hurting, Coy did not bother to show up at the meeting so he would be forced to look into their tearstained eyes and face his own music, so this is the outlet many of them have found to express their anger.
They will move on soon.
It’s so funny – someone said that Bob Coy made a mistake. Now doesn’t that make it sound so much better. No, a mistake is what my grandson did last night on his math assignment where he forgot to carry the one while doing his addition.
Bob plan each and everyone of his ‘encounters’ – oh yes, he probably thought of it for the preceding week – and on the day of each ‘fling’ (we can’t call it what it is, it may hurt someone’s feelings) I will bet bob took a shower, put on his clean underwear, splash on a little cologne and went for it.
No, it was not a mistake – it was a plan.
Sue Gambler,
Alex Grenier and I have completely different networks and sources.
None of the information in question appears on his blog.
It only appears on mine.
It is from my sources.
Attacking Alex or myself does not change the facts.
It shows why they needed to be presented.
My apologies to the blog.
I had to address some matters outside the house and I was unable to deal with this.
“I know for fact, that the details were never and will never be released to the general public. So it begs the question, if not from Alex Grenier who has the reputation of manipulating the truth for his personal gain, than where did he get it? He claims āsources and documentsā ā and he has had problems with plagerism in the past (Google it)”
The plagiarism accusation was actually played out here in front of the community.
Look it up.
To my knowledge, Alex gets no ‘personal gain” from blogging and mine defines the term “minimal”.
The info was not released to the public.
It was released to me.
Deal with it.
Thank you to all the long time friends who have offered their support.
Things haven’t been like this in my life for many years.
I don’t enjoy this a bit.
I have a question. I wonder if Bob Coy’s assistant pastors got this much love and attention when he made them stand up and repent of their failings? Or were they forgotten or shunned because they were no longer useful to his ‘ministry’? Why didn’t he stand up in front of everyone and repent? Didn’t he want to be shamed and humiliated like his assistants? Or are the rules different for the main rockstar?
Now that I’m on the outside of Calvary Chapel for several years it is so obvious to me how the pastor is idolized. All I see is how much Bob Coy did for everyone. How wonderful he is. You would think they were talking about Jesus.
I’m so glad the Lord delivered me from Calvary Chapel as heartbreaking at the time for me as it was. It was the best heart break I’ve ever had. Thank you, Jesus.
“Daughter of the Most High”
The accusation you posted is legally actionable.
I will be forwarding all the information we see here to the accused in case he chooses to pursue such.
S Fl news at 5 stated this has been going on since 2005. That’s a long time.
Why would he not be there publically to speak to his congregation.
Regardless, people there at the meeting are saying how much love was in that room…
http://emptybreaths.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/the-truth-about-pastor-bob-the-man-behind-the-headlines/
“S Fl news at 5 stated this has been going on since 2005”
It’s coming out faster than I thought it would. And this again proves that Michael wasn’t giving misinformation. Michael didn’t even give a date. Others did, and they got it from CC FL insiders that are lifting the “shroud of silence”.
As I understand it, cheeseburgers and ’57 Chevy Nomads are not in the Bible either.
Andy- Unless they got it from Alex’s blog where the guy from the church dropped the bomb
“Unless they got it from Alexās blog where the guy from the church dropped the bomb”
Hard to believe that they’re putting their television reputation on the line based on an anonymous post on an internet blog that most outsiders consider a “sour grapes” blog.
According to the FB pages of many who attend including Pastors-there is now going to be a revival and everyone is pumped and just loving on Bob in thoughts and actions…sounds like a lovefest is happening.
Not surprised having been there for over 9 years.
Andy,
Where did you see that?
The Florida media has hounded me all day, but I hadn’t heard that.
“According to the FB pages of many who attend including Pastors-there is now going to be a revival and everyone is pumped”
I believe there will be a revival….
….of abrupt increased attendance at surrounding churches in the area.
“Where did you see that? The Florida media has hounded me all day, but I hadnāt heard that.”
A local TV station said 2005, as did some anonymous post on Alex’s blog.
Michael- I just called my mother-she said that the news stated (she wrote it down cause she knew we had gone there)..2005, 2 affairs, pornography.
Could it be that they are combining the information from the 2 blogs?
Genesis 50:20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.
“unemployed wanna be preacher with zero credentials”
For some reason I could not stop laughing over that. Not sure why. I guess having been here so long and seen so many insults hurled. And this one is such a limp noodle.
Ironically, right now that insult fits Bob Coy best.
Look, we are a family. None of this changes that.
Alex has been very responsible with how he has handled this…he wouldn’t post anything that he can’t verify.
I have kept things here to what I can prove…so I’m not sure where 2005 has come up.
If TV ran it, they must have something I don’t.
Now everyone can go hate them. š
Andy,
Thank you…
Derek, thank you for that.
Michael is a dear friend of mine and I used to moderate here and I get protective sometimes.
“As I understand it, cheeseburgers and ā57 Chevy Nomads are not in the Bible either”
Yet as partakers of these divine works we bear witness that they are of God.
Daughter-
What does that verse have to do with this situation? Joseph forgiving his brothers for their betrayal has something to do with this?
Dusty,
This feels like 2005…you did awesome today.
Thank you, sis.
Hi Paige, (((((hugs))))
The 2005 reference:
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/04/07/fort-lauderdale-megachurch-pastor-resigns-over-moral-failing/
“What does that verse have to do with this situation? Joseph forgiving his brothers for their betrayal has something to do with this?”
Exactly. Joseph fled potential adultery. So who is supposed to be Joseph in her citation?
CBS Miami simply referenced the blog comment on my blog that started all the questions into the situation.
I reported it as was confirmed to me by multiple sources as “moral failure” and that Coy had resigned.
The original blog comment by another party is what CBS referenced and they know I wasn’t the author, just the medium/forum the comment first appeared on and they reported that way (that it wasn’t my words, but someone else’s claiming to be a CCFL employ)
Well, this news outlet isn’t calling it “moral failure”
http://www.local10.com/news/calvary-chapel-senior-pastor-resigns-effective-immediately/25352454
yay, I did? , glad to help big brother. I thought today seemed like deja vu all over again. š
Andy- I think she is trying to suggest that the congregation is Joseph and the brothers are PB. Really bad analogy.
I’m not surprised cause I threw out my Bible that I had “Circled” stuff in (CCFL people will understand). When I really began too learn the Bible I realized how much wrong I had been fed.
So I guess I was right. They got the 2005 from CCabuse.
Is “Fallen King” the Christian version of “Game of Thrones”?
what are they going to do with the 600 employees, 135million dollars empire? does coy take it with him? will they beg him to stay? :/
Anonymous, yep, you were right.
How do you go from “Moral Failure” to “cheating on his wife”?
Neo at #184
No. I have read all of the “Song of Ice and Fire”, the GOT series so far.
They are not comparable.
Sort of like comparing apples and oranges.
I really liked “Fallen King”
EricL who comments here wrote it.
Here is my review of it.
http://derekthornton71.blogspot.com/2014/04/fallen-king-cirian-war-saga-by-eric.html
Dusty- His full name is on the deed to the original location. It was on the internet about 7 yrs ago. Can’t find it now. It didn’t say “Calvary Chapel Ft Lauderdale”.
Dusty- People really like the associate Pastors. Their used to be 20 of them. They would take turns while he was away. So I doubt anyone is going anywhere.
I’ve got my t’s crossed and my i’s dotted, always ready for a court battle.
CBS is the big boys, they know what they’re doing. They’ve talked to a lot of folks, I was just the one with the cojones to go on the record and on air.
Much is flowing out of CCFL but the sources are reticent b/c they know how Calvary Chapel can be sometimes in terms of retribution etc.
To All Congregants Of CCFTL: I am remaining anonymous, but here are some facts that I have come to know.
1) Your love for Bob is just and to be commended.
2) You are wounded and hurt beyond imagination.
3) We get that. We love you and we hurt with you, praying for you without ceasing!
BUT….Please consider these things:
4) Bob did not show up and repent before you last night, because it is going to take time for the board to see how far back this goes…But if Bob were truly repentant, he would have been there to confess. He SHOULD have been there as he required other fallen leaders to stand before you, so this is to his shame I believe. I say this in all humility and by the grace of God go I.
Read 2 Corinthians 7:10 to see what true godly repentance looks like please…Scripture has to be honored and followed here. It is painful. With that in mind, the Board is protecting YOU the flock from further hurt and they are handling it the best way that they can. Pray for them.
5) Bob’s sin is more far reaching and severe than you can imagine. So the consequences are just at this time.
Imagine how it is hurting the board to suspend his messages, radio and ministry there.
They too, love Bob. No one asked for this. Bob Coy is solely culpable for this mess.
6) Bob is now beginning to realize the scope of this.
7) Maybe the reason his messages are no longer available is due to “intellectual property rights.” I don’t know but only God does.
8.) Be angry at Satan-not at your spiritual family. The Devil will wait years and slowly set up a man to fall. He is a patient and deceiving adversary who does not fight a fair fight. He hates Bob, and you.
9.) Try not to strive in figuring all of this out. We can’t. We were not there. There are 5 sides to a story. Pray for the peace and restoration of the Coy Family and the Body at Ft. Lauderdale. We love you and grieve with you. The Lord Jesus is unchanging. His mercy triumphs over judgment. He is greater than all of these things.
Grace and Peace…
‘moral failure’ leaves lots of room for interpretation. they should have just come out and said what the moral failure was.
Michael’s sources have confirmed what the other person posted on my blog and apparently some other unnamed sources have as well or a CBS and ABC affiliate wouldn’t go with it. This isn’t rocket science. The reporters quizzed me like it was the inquisition. They are very thorough.
RiBo,
I had to go to the river and hide.
Inquisition is the right word for it…over and over again.
Grieving-
I commend you for your words, but I have to disagree that this is not Satan’s actions, it is Bob’s. He made a choice.
And yes, he owed to to the congregation not to whimp out and for once be a man and face them.
But they are loyal to a fault.
I waited for years for him to contact our family over an issue that was hurting one of our children. He never called, and he forced us out because I was trying to be a light in a dark place.
I realized that no one really cared about our family- because they could not for a moment believe their beloved could do no wrong.
He should know now how much he won everyone over.
My voice is about to give out, I’ve been on the phone or skype all day…with more interviews tomorrow.
GWYIF,
Well said…sounds like you know of what you speak.
Anonymous, I agree, Coy did wuss out. If you’re man enough to do the crime then you better be man enough to face the music.
These CC pastors are the kings of trotting out assistant pastors and shaming them in front of the congregations…not so much when it’s their turn.
RiBo,
I’m not doing anymore…and I turned down the big one from N.Y.
TV is not ready for me… š
LOL, I don’t think TV is ready for me either…but in a different way š
Anonymous,
I said “Bob Coy is solely culpable for this mess.”
Satan has a part too… He brought the fruit to Eve and the temptation to Bob.
I talked to the NY guy for quite awhile today. He quickly learned that it won’t be a matter of not having enough material to use when it comes to interviewing me LOL. Editing will be the name of the game to keep inside a half hour program š
I just gave him the basics and told him no about the show.
Ended quickly after that…
Grieving “8.) Be angry at Satan-not at your spiritual family. The Devil will wait years and slowly set up a man to fall. He is a patient and deceiving adversary who does not fight a fair fight. He hates Bob, and you.”
This is what I was replying to.
You are suggesting that he was “set up”.
I don’t agree. It was his desires and his flesh.
You suggest he had no choice.
I told him I’d be happy to do it and looked forward to the opportunity to discuss Calvary Chapel etc.
Anonymous,
Whatever you say. If you must be right, then by all means, be that way. God bless you.
RiBo, you are funny
What exactly do you mean by number #2 Michael?
Did you break the news before Calvary Chapel FTL made the announcement?
It seems like this is the only place online mentioning the 2 affairs (all other sites are giving this blog as the source of that information) . Will the source(s) of this information ever be made public?
I agree with GWYIF – Satan is a relentless enemy who waits years and years to find a weak spot. He set it all in motion – but Pastor Bob did have a choice – isn’t that what the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about? We have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, and with that redemption comes the power to walk away from sin and bad choices. It is heartbreaking that a man who taught about this sort of thing fell into it himself. My prayers are with the family, and the saints at CCFTL.
So, if Bob Coy owns the church, does the wife get half in the divorce? š
I like to joke about this – for some reason Coy gets somewhat of a pass – you know, you must show grace or forgiveness etc bs – but if this were your brother in law doing your sister dirty you would be doing like I suggested yesterday – go over and beat the tar out of him.
But, hey, this is the good reverend Coy.
MLD, lol
IMO this article states the trap.
http://scatteredsheepreport.blogspot.com/2014/04/mega-pastor-let-down.html
MLD,
Jesus isn’t joking about this. In fact, it breaks His heart. So why would you?
Philip,
This was a done deal by Friday morning.
By Friday night it was leaking out on the net.
By Saturday morning my phone was blowing up with multiple sources and confirmations.
I went to see Captain America 2 and did nothing.
Afterward, I was amazed that the story hadn’t broke yet and I broke it.
CCFTL had plenty of time to tell their people.
They chose to run a Saturday night service and (incredibly) 3 Sunday services while this was exploding all over the internet.
Their lack of sense is not my responsibility.
Grieving With You In Florida = holier than thou.
Isn’t this the one sin in the Bible that Jesus says that you bring him into? Why doesn’t anyone want to slap Coy around for purposely bringing my Lord Jesus into his bed of sin.
My goodness- doesn’t that bother you at all??
And Friday PB was tweeting as if nothing happened…
Matthew 12:21
Wouldn’t that be strange?
That, to me is the bizarre thing.
Now that I’m out of CC I see things I didn’t see when worshiping there. The reason we left was the Moses Model. To much abuse takes place when one man attempts to do it all. After reading here it is apparent that most don’t have any idea of what real Biblical church discipline looks like. We are not to condemn but there are consequences. This would be an excellent time to do a thorough study of what the scriptures really have to say about church discipline. I was uninformed while attending CC. By God’s grace I have found a church that delves into the difficulties of the scriptures. Dig deeper, CC’rs. Emotions can lead you astray.
Michael- They actually have 2 Saturday night and 4 Sunday services!
Anonymous(217), me too…only lets not use the pastor title. š
Anon,
I stand corrected.
I only saw the one on Saturday night…too much time zone difference. š
OK Dusty š –By the way I hope you are doing well. How’s Sis Chris?
I was actually surprised at all the services. When I left it was the ones you mentioned!
This is the link Anonymous posted a few above. But you need to go to the bottom – some great Jimmy Swaggart music there.
http://scatteredsheepreport.blogspot.com/2014/04/mega-pastor-let-down.html
MLD,
Call me what you will. Mocking another especially when they are down is shameful. You seem rather comfortable in essence saying: “I am glad I am not like him.” Your liking to joke about this sends a shrill down my spine. (BTW – It doesn’t matter what I think, or whether I am bothered by this. It only matters what God thinks.)
Good night all, and please pray and intercede for those hurting tonight…Out.
Anonymous, email me at dust.shaker@gmail.com
Grieving- I hope you’ll stick around. MLD’s bark is bigger than his bite š Just don’t mention infant baptism or communion š Ok guys I’m out!
This is just the beginning. Who knows what else might come to light now that major news organizations have become involved. We have all seen this in the past and let’s hope and pray that this doesn’t play out like it did in those cases where new revelations kept coming out.
I have seen in recent years the importance that blogs can play in bringing information to the public that might otherwise would have been buried.
If there is more information then maybe CCFL owes it to the public and their church body to release it so this does not have to drag on needlessly to everyone’s detriment, especially the wife and children of Bob who must be suffering greatly at this moment.
Sadly there’s a history in the church we can and should be learning from. To repeat the same mistakes when they can be avoided would be a bad witness for Christ and His church for it is His name we should be most concerned about.
hey E-brother, how you holding up under those awful warm sunny days? š when we were sitting in 20 in of snow @ -15′
Anon, she and I are still best friends and see each other as often as we can…
Michael, thanks for the prompt response.
Where did you break the news on Friday night?
The first mention of this subject on this site I see, was on Sunday April 6th. Could you provide a link?
PS,
Look at the comment times on this.
https://phoenixpreacher.com/?p=17102
They predate the time listed on the article, probably because Michael updated it.
News just in:
Franklin Graham will be doing the Easter service at FAU in BC’s place. (Florida Atlantic University)
MLD, pick on someone who can take your bull and send it back your way. If you’re craving some RiBo attention I’m here š
I don’t understand why people are afraid to say that what Bob Coy has done (remember he did it – it was not done to him) pisses them off.
I said early he can be restored as a brother – people can pray for him if they want and people can forgive him … good big deal – but people should also be mad as hell
He will go down as one more Elmer Gantry – and the church does not need one more Elmer Gantry.
RB,
I am ready for you – let’s hear you defend Coy and I will tell you why I am pissed. š
Grieving FTL nailed it. Bob is accountable and chose self oriented dishonoring and long term destructive actions of sinful self indulgence in violation of his marriage covenant and the stewardship entrusted to him as a minister if the new covenant. Bob did this knowing that he had other choices prompted by and that would have been enabled by grace to carry out.
Grieving feels it. Whether the people of ccftl have engaged Bob as an idol and are living in denial or are experiencing the betrayal because they know how to distinguish Jesus from a mere mortal pastor and understand the standards and substance an elder is called to embrace and uphold. Thank you for showing compassion and dignity for the people of God and the bride of Christ in ccftl.
Grieving gets it. Satan does scheme and plans his enticements well. We recognize the tactics and deluding influences and destructive enticements of the enemy. We need to embrace our responsibility to sober and alert watching out for ourselves and others lest anyone of us be devoured.
Thank you for your exhortation bathed in a holy humility.
Not to inflame or anything, but I thought it strange in one of the links above that someone was stating he should be given kudos for going before 1000’s and admitting his sin.
Did I miss something? I thought he let others stand up and break the news and, unlike what he did with his own brother, did NOT stand before the congregation.
“I thought he let others stand up and break the news and, unlike what he did with his own brother, did NOT stand before the congregation”
Right. It’s easy to stand before the crowd when you have some fresh comedy to share. But it takes a real man to show up on the day it is announced that you’re stepping down.
Michael, didn’t F. Graham do the smooth-over service for Skip Heitzig as well?
MLD said, “RB,
I am ready for you ā letās hear you defend Coy and I will tell you why I am pissed. ”
OK. You’re on. It’s not Coy’s fault, the devil made him do it. The church should have been praying harder for him. It’s their fault! š
Philip,
The first rumblings were on calvarychapelabuse.com Friday night
I published Saturday afternoon.
RiBo,
FG was right in the thick of the ABQ mess.
RiBo,
I was there at that service with Franklin Graham and there was nothing smooth about it.
I haven’t read all of the preceding comments, but want to say that these 2 statements are so spot on:
“If we were less offended and more broken, we would speak as we should.”
“Grace does not negate consequences…it transforms the purpose of the consequences from retributive to redemptive.”
Thank you, Michael.
RiBo- How is it that you now have 3900 people on your blog?
Amen to CK’s 245.
Hmm, F. Graham is the fixer. Well, I had a high regard for him until I found out how much the “servant of God’ was raking in in pay.
I don’t any “servants” making a million buck a year for Jesus. That’s not “service” that’s hitting the lottery.
He lost any goodwill I had for him that day.
I would be a horrible mega-pastor. I wouldn’t take any money for it, I’d donate all the book sales…and my sermons would be honest and it would freak people out. Guess I’m not “called”
…of course you have to be all the things a Coy is to attract such a following. You have to cultivate and be intentional about making it like Disneyland to get that big.
Pn can you email me- i have a few? ??s
Night all, play nice š
re: Kevin H,’s #12, I so get what you’re talking about. I’ve spent the better part of 10 years at a large CC where the pastor does not act like a celebrity, nor does he demand to be treated like one. YET, there are sheeple, even some staff members, who think this man’s s@#$ doesn’t stink.
Hi Dusty. š . Hey CK! Good to see your presence PN.
Dusty…will do
Dusty, Vic and PN, just seeing that you’ve been here today makes me smile.
I’m way over tired…but I just got a little teary eyed seeing so many names from so many friends that have been here over the years.
It’s been like a PhxP family reunion.
Thank you all for being here with me in one more storm.
š
Much love to you, Michael. Go get some rest.
What the Cap’n said 8)
Much love to you all…thank you all again for all these years and today.
I’ve noticed how quickly many have jumped to the “don’t judge” scriptures, yet ignored the “expose the deeds of darkness” passages. There is a divine balance in play which keeps us from being condemning and/or excusing. Life for the Christian is not simply social interplay, but submission to and participation in a plan and work that is much bigger in scope and depth. We can blunt or short-circuit the work of God by resorting to our limited understanding & emotional reactions.
capt Keven, much love my friend
vic- good to see you too
I know this thread is waning, and the hate has kind of burned itself out, but i have one more thing that I need to say, and then I think that I am done with this. This is said to the men of this blog, and the men of the church in general. This requires you to take off your glasses of self righteousness and smugness, and acknowledge that we ARE a family and all connected in the Spirit of the living God who has called us all here for one reason or another.
one part of the equation that seems to have been left out is where were all the men of the church when this was planted as a seed in hid mind and heart?
The men of the church like to have their Man breakfasts, and their golf days, and father daughter dances and the men’s bible study where they are taught to be strong leaders and do well with their finances.
They even have support groups for men struggling with porn or affairs…. sort of. more on these later…
You go to the pastor, and tell him that you have a problem. With porn and lust and issues like that that are taking a toll on your marriage. The pastor may talk to you a few times, give you some verses on holiness and purity. Then tell you that he really doesn’t think he can help you and you need some “professional help” Really? you can’t pray with the guy and keep in touch enough to know him and his hurts?
So you go to the “christian counselor”. ok, you go for a while, you try to explain what is wrong, and they try to tell you that it is a moral failing and that you need to stop sinning and have some accountability in your church. Really? and then they say, they have done all they can and you just need to keep fighting the good fight.
All the while, the porn (which has shifted from HBO movies and liquor store magazines into deeper and more involved sexual deviancy. Some times the wife, in an effort to “save” her husband, agrees to participate to a degree, or chooses to live in denial and pretend it is not there.
So, since nothing has worked, he tries the sexual purity group, heralded as safe place to be helped and lifted up. Only when he reveals his true struggles (way beyond Movies and magazines and veering into sexual and gender identity issues) ANd he shares, whit brothers in Christ who have said that this was a safe place, he is met with gaping mouths and show gazing and silence. He gets it, he is too bad to be there, and they are not willing to do anything. And those friends never call again.
So he tries secular counselling that tells him to embrace his sexuality, explore his identity issues and he runs as fast as he can out of there, knowing that it goes against everything that God wants for him. But how does this struggle end? With the person thinking they are crazy, self medicating, pharmaceuticals, whatever to numb not only the pain the sin causes, but the rejection byt the one group of people who should be helping.
So, everyone of you that has turned your back on a brother (or sister for that matter) who was hurting, and made church an uncomfortable place for them to be….. you are to blame. anyone who has judged someone’s sin as being too dirty or too bad or too shameful to associate with him, shame on you.
My husband could have been Bob Coy. He has a heart for sharing the word with others, but he was too open about his struggles. Bob could not have nurtured this kind of sin in a short amount of time, nor in a vacuum. People knew. His wife, on some level knew. Did anyone offer to help for her sake or their kids? Colleges knew, but as we have seen, the christian community is swift to condemn and hate, not very willing to deal with what makes them uncomfortable. People knew and ignored it, condoned it, swept it under the table.
If you want to be angry, be angry at them, e angry at a nation of churches that is to self righteous to get dirty with those they deem beneath them.
But many of the comments here are no better. But I wanted you all to see that this could have been you. Or your son. Or your best friend, pastor, dad, coworker. none of us is above sin. and sin unchecked becomes big and destructive and uglier. This situation breaks my heart in so many ways, And I am praying for all who are involved.
I am done now.
“The men of the church like to have their Man breakfasts”
I always hated the men’s breakfast. 60 minutes of gorging yourselves, and then 7 minutes of Bible study on some innocuous topic that doesn’t even dig deep into the Bible, and with no time to be transparent about personal struggles. Useless waste of time.
“Bob could not have nurtured this kind of sin in a short amount of time, nor in a vacuum. People knew”
I have experienced the attitude of “Bob is so anointed/gifted/funny/right on” thing in some people around me for awhile now, and once that forced silence is there, you can’t suggest the possibility that the guy might be off, or even way off.
“the christian community is swift to condemn and hate, not very willing to deal with what makes them uncomfortable”
Because these topics just can’t be touched, sadly. They’re supposed to be touched, however, and maybe this will bring things out into the open. The freedom of transparency is more enjoyable than the sin, that I know from personal experience.
g-girl,
there is much truth and wisdom to your 263. I recall a men’s retreat at which the porn topic came up in a small-group session. There was the awkward laughter, the generic ‘all guys struggle with it’ comment, and the leader moved on to another topic. Hot potato. It effectively stated the topic was off-limits.
gomergirl,
I’m convinced that 99% of the problems within evangelicalism would vanish if we would allow women complete equality. The first places are the offices of teacher and pastor. Jesus had no problem with women as equals.
Time to return to Jesus’ original model.
Matt 7:1 & Luke 6:37
or
Eph 5:11 & 1 Cor 5:12
Which ones should we follow? Do we get to pick and choose depending on the situation? Is it possible to follow both at the same time?
Steve B
Not only can you do both at the same time – you must do both. People do not read Bible passages clearly
5 “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
6 āDo not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
Look what it says and in what order.
1st – clean your self up – THEN you can judge others
2nd – Don’t you have to judge to know who is a dog and who is a pig
Steve B,
in my opinion and experience the passages are not mutually exclusive, but balance each other. Another example would be with forgiveness–we are ‘required’ to forgive, but ‘judgment’ would be exercised to recognize a wrong was committed in the first place, perhaps leading to a confrontation Matt. 18-style. Accountability is not the enemy of forgiveness. “don’t judge” is not the enemy of “expose the deeds of darkness.”
I don’t think that very many here understand the capacity of men to not listen to advise … even when they seek it out. I am sure that Coy’s inner circle knew and counseled him and for a great time he did not listen.
About 6 yrs ago when my daughter was just in the beginning stages of splitting with her husband, I went to my son in law to give him my wise counsel. I told him that as the man, it was his job to fix the situation. He did not listen and they divorced.
A couple of years later my son was going through the same situation. I went a couple of times to give my wise counsel. I told him I didn’t know what the problem was but as the man, it is your job to fix this. He didn’t listen … and they divorced..
Men travel alone because they want to travel alone.
yeah, what MLD said. š
I wonder if the church will show Bob Coy the respect that the word of God shows to David, and Peter, and Reuben, and so many others, and publish the actual truth of his misdeeds.
While we’re at it, let’s all go back and replace the 11th chapter of II Samuel with a summary:
“And David had some moral failings.”
People really do not need to know the details?
So why is that God decided that people should know the details? Did you ever wonder about that? What makes this case so different?
“as the man, it is your job to fix this”
Mmm, I don’t see the Scripture that says this. That just sounds like worldly humanistic/feministic psychology.
The woman’s role is to submit to the husband in all things. If they did that first, then many less divorces would exist. Why doesn’t anyone tell the woman that? Because they don’t want to be seen as “ancient and chipped out of the ice glacier”.
But according to the worldly philosophy, it’s ALWAYS the man’s fault. Always.
Just remember that if the wife isn’t happy, it’s the husband’s fault. If the wife is unfulfilled, it’s the husband’s fault.
And every kiss begins with Kay.
“Just remember that if the wife isnāt happy, itās the husbandās fault. If the wife is unfulfilled, itās the husbandās fault. ”
I believe that.
MLD, I figured you would believe that.
I don’t believe that.
I don’t believe that the Scriptures teach at all that a woman that is bent on dissatisfaction, is the husband’s fault.
That is why the woman can drive the man to the housetops for refuge, in so many Proverbs.
You’re a feminist?
PP Vet,
Thank you.
Andy,
If the woman is submissive to the man’s leadership, it follows then that the responsibilities all fall on the man’s shoulders. Leadership doesn’t get to cop out and blame those led. That doesn’t make anyone a feminist…just the opposite is true.
as for Proverbs, those verses are observational as opposed to didactic.
Once again, tragically, MLD is right (this is a bad precedent that I am sure will not continue).
When the aircraft carrier hits a reef, whose fault is it?
As far as the USN is concerned, ultimately, it is the captain’s fault.
Whom did God hold responsible in the garden?
When my wife sees an angry bitter wife she tells me: You would have loved me through that and out of that.
Own up / man up / fix it.
And if you are a woman in charge of a family, woman up (although women in those situations almost always do that without having to be told).
This is a principle, and admittedly all principles have exceptions.
filberz wrote: “If the woman is submissive to the manās leadership”
I have to stop you there. That in itself is a rare leap. To be submissive in ALL things? I have found so few women that follow that instruction, that it could probably be counted on just two hands.
Andy,
You asked me “Youāre a feminist?” Not at all and neither is my wife.
What i am is a man who has been married to the same woman for over 45 yrs. š
My wife is submissive on the big things IF we have a disagreement. On 99% of things I am submissive – do I care what color the carpet should be or what color to paint, what se serves for dinner etc. No.
I don’t care what she spends money on either – my two demands
1.) Don’t cut your hair short and … I don’t even remeber a 2nd. š
Andy,
if it is so rare, don’t let the exceptions be your expectation. Abandon the cause, wave the white hanky, relegate women to the dung hill. If “all” is your standard, we are “all” screwed.
filbertz wrote: “if it is so rare, donāt let the exceptions be your expectation. Abandon the cause, wave the white hanky, relegate women to the dung hill. If āallā is your standard, we are āallā screwed”
That just sounds like a cop-out to me.
MLD is right again. He has the husband-wife thing just about nailed. If at all possible, let her have her way. But you have to hear from God.
On another note, the Bob Franquiz piece on Bob Coy is awesome.
Andy,
it is a cop-out to blame women for men’s lack of leadership, sacrificial love, accountability, and general slovenliness in the things of God.
filbertz, is it possible for a man to lead if the woman won’t follow in all things?
Andy, I will bet that when they first got married she followed. What changed?
Think about yourself – if you got along find with someone you looked up to or waned to be around and now you are rebellious against that person, who changed?
Andy,
“filbertz, is it possible for a man to lead if the woman wonāt follow in all things?”
Having trouble with the little woman??? š
An unmarried woman here: What is “all” mean?
At the moment of marriage, is a woman’s knowledge and abilities immediately vacated in favor of the husband’s? What if the wife is a higher wage earner than the husband and he pronounces her “wrong” for earning more than him?
This is a real question. I know what happened in my marriage and what is happening in my sister’s marriage right now and from what it looks like to me, her husband expects her hopes, dreams, desires and ability to be negated in favor of whatever he decides.
I could almost buy that if not for that pesky Proverbs 31.
So, tell me: what is this “all” about?
MLD
@281
#2 Be loyal to Dodger blue!
Male chauvinism wearing a Jesus T-shirt is sick, in my opinion.
Someone objects to their wife making more money than them???
In good leadership form, I allow my wife to make more than me … yikes, she’s my boss.
I wish she made 3 times as much as me. š
MLD wrote: “Having trouble with the little woman???”
Not at all. She loves the Bible. š All of it. Not just Proverbs 31. She also loves Ephesians, Colossians, 1 Peter…..
And loving all of those Bible passages has made her rebellious?? You may need a new translation. š
She’s the least rebellious woman I’ve ever known. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (satanism), and the person rebelling against the Word of God, is just a run of the mill boring rebel (and worse).
It’s actually the “American way” to have two people seek to have decisions made by consensus, rather than by authority. A two (or more) headed monster is the way of American culture. Consensus is the way for Americans, but, consensus always leads to rejecting the Word of God.
So your conversation above was hypothetical?
Gosh, I can’t believe this thread has devolved into a discussion about women and submission in ‘all ‘ things. The whole Ephesians ch 5 discussion starts with ‘submit one to another in the fear of Christ”…. .
Personally, I love Proverbs 31. It’s very LIBERATING. Ohmygosh…. yes, really…. that Ch 31 woman has a life and mind of her own…. she owns property and a profitable business. It all depends on how you read it or who is hanging it over your head like a curse or threat.
Just for fun, read Romans 16 and notice the numerous women mentioned by name, not the least of whom is Phoebe who ministered TO Paul. Heavens!
The sort of ‘biblical submission’ that is being discussed or implied here is the sort of stuff that leads to women like Diane Coy ‘submitting’ to men like Bob Coy, when deep down in her heart of hearts she KNOWS something is terribly terribly wrong, but she’s been taught and taught and taught to ‘be submissive’ and ‘be quiet ” 1 Pet 3. Where could she go to ‘report’ him? Who would believe her? Shut up and stay home and lead a quiet godly life.
The way so called ‘biblical submission’ is ‘taught’ is a large piece of the power differential and paves the way for abuse and hiding a chronically sinful lifestyle.
Been there. Done that. Free at last. Thank God All Mighty. Free at last.
Been married 20 years and was submissive in ALL things….almost killed me….made me suicidal. We fixed things and things are getting better….
paigemom @ 298 . Based on past experience and observations, I’ve been anticipating that devolvement since the scandal broke : ( So grateful for your healing and freedom.
dusty – so good to see you and hear things are improving for you as well. I loved how you stood up for your big brother yesterday.
Kudos to both Michael & Alex for their integrity and professionalism in covering this.
((((((HUGS)))))) Anne, good to see you too. it seems I found my voice doesn’t it? š
MLD wrote: “So your conversation above was hypothetical?”
Purely hypothetical, just for the sake of discussion. Because it is the banished topic, but, more of us are talking about it, and won’t care if it makes us unpopular.
Paigemom,
Any discussion involving a certain-Lutheran-whom-I-will-not-name is headed for a downward spiral. I’ve seen exactly what you say in CC. It started with that Moses guy. š
Paige & Anne,
I think you both need to go back and read the thread through clear lenses. Everyone of us has agreed that it is the man who sets the tone to a good relationship. If he does not submit himself, his desires, his ego etc to the needs of his wife, then he is the cause of a rebellious wife – or a wife who is having troubles.
I said above – “āJust remember that if the wife isnāt happy, itās the husbandās fault. If the wife is unfulfilled, itās the husbandās fault. ā
I believe that. And I think all the men who commented agreed.
Give it one more read through.
Andy,
can a president lead if congress doesn’t cooperate? can a father lead if the children don’t always obey? can a captain lead if the soldiers don’t always do everything the way he wishes? can a coach lead if the players sometimes do their own thing?
yup. Perhaps a wife doesn’t follow because she’s also a leader and chafes under poor leadership provided by her other half. Perhaps the coach is old-school and the players are a new breed. Perhaps the president can lead by finding common ground instead of attempting to dominate. perhaps the captain is an ass and the soldiers are covering their own. Leadership and followership is more complicated than black and white dictates.
by the way, ladies, I’m a complementarian & agree with women in leadership roles in the church and elsewhere.
MLD wrote: “I believe that. And I think all the men who commented agreed”
I’m a man. And I don’t agree.
filbertz wrote: ” Perhaps a wife doesnāt follow because sheās also a leader and chafes under poor leadership provided by her other half”
Define “poor leadership”. It becomes an opinion thing. That’s all it is. Opinions are worthless. Only the Word of God matters. And the Word of God says that the wife obeys the husband in all things. The Word of God doesn’t say, “unless he’s a poor leader”.
What about Abigail?
Andy,
“Iām a man. And I donāt agree.”
I meant a man – not just in anatomy … I meant a MAN.
The sort of ābiblical submissionā that is being discussed or implied here is the sort of stuff that leads to women like Diane Coy āsubmittingā to men like Bob Coy, when deep down in her heart of hearts she KNOWS something is terribly terribly wrong, but sheās been taught and taught and taught to ābe submissiveā and ābe quiet ā 1 Pet 3. Where could she go to āreportā him? Who would believe her? Shut up and stay home and lead a quiet godly life.
_____________________________________________________________________
Paigemom, Do you know Diane Coy or Bob Coy personally and do you know what their arrangements were in the home? Are you 100% positive that Diane Coy didn’t have her own affair or moral failure, etc… I am not putting Diane Coy on trial here or suspecting anything and I believe she suffered harm from Bob and his failures but do we really know the entire story? Diane Coy was not the Moses Model senior pastor but she was a strong leader in her own right that led the women’s ministry in CCFL and is scheduled to speak at the women’s conference in Philly in a couple of weeks? Was or is she qualified to do that? I only ask because we don’t know the entire story and dynamic in the Coy home. What I find interesting in Calvary are these mega women conferences usually with guest speakers that are wives of the mega superstar Moses Model pastors. Its almost as if Calvary is admitting in their patriarchal system that its unfair to women so they allow them to have their own Mrs. Moses Model counter part ministry. I honestly don’t think this is a good sign for a healthy church. That is just my opinion.
Michael,
Since the other blogs are closed (temporarily, I hope) I reread your list of ten above. They’re all good and succinct but my fave is #6. I’m trying to imagine blaming my wife for any of my faults or failures. I just can’t get my mind around that. I’m trying to imagine if I was a pastor getting up before my congregation and saying “It was that woman God gave me…” No, it would be my own lust and sin that did me in aided by my lazy theology.
I pray that those CCers who come here to vent will get through their (5 stages of) grief and come through this knowing God more with a better perspective.
Mrs. Moses- that has a ring to it.
“I meant a man ā not just in anatomy ā¦ I meant a MAN”
LOL
Your definition of a man isn’t based on Scripture. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that a man’s main goal in life is making his wife happy. That’s just worldly wisdom.
Andrew wrote: “I only ask because we donāt know the entire story and dynamic in the Coy home”
Exactly. There’s his side, her side, and God’s side.
Andy,
“Thatās just worldly wisdom.” and pretty good wisdom at that. Perhaps I will write it into the Bible.
But then again, you are probably into those biblical arranged marriages.
MLD wrote: “But then again, you are probably into those biblical arranged marriages”
Too stupid of a comment to continue the discussion. See you in the other thread. š
I saw that RiBo shared the original comment concerning Bob Coy that got the ball rolling so to speak. If RiBo or another could answer I would be thankful. In that statement the person stated that one of the women came forward as opposed to Bob actually stepping up and confessing. Can this be substantiated as I believe there’s a big distinction between the two scenarios. Thanks.
I haven’t read every comment, but IMO MLD is speaking from the wisdom gained in a long term marriage. Perhaps the wisdom that leads to a long term marriage.
From his very early comments about BC needing an ass whooping, to his mature view on making marriage work, I agree with everything I’ve read on this topic by MLD.
My wife and I will celebrate 35 years on October, and I’ve done more than my fair share of marriage counseling. In my life, and the lives of the couples I’ve tried to help, the guy is usually to blame for the problem, whether he created it or was too checked out to fix it.
I think our default is selfish dolt…
Understanding women is impossible – making them happy and content for a lifetime is quite simple
“If he does not submit himself, his desires, his ego etc to the needs of his wife, then he is the cause of a rebellious wife ….”
“Understanding women is impossible ā making them happy and content for a lifetime is quite simple”
Right on.
Some wise person has taken over commenting for MLD.
Andy,
me-thinks your interpretation of scripture trumped your quotation of it.
you continue to place all the responsibility on the wife to submit or obey and give the husband a free pass. Submission/obedience to a fool destroys self-respect & reduces a spouse to little more than a servant.
Hubby and I are going on 42 years of marriage. He treats me like a queen and I guess I do usually get my way, although, because he treats me so well, often time, “my way” is his way, as I delight to please him! It is a mutual love and respect. I can only think of 1 or 2 times where we came to a “loggerhead” and I “submitted” to his decision, even though I was not sure if he was really right or not. I have no regrets on those decisions. We came to a place where if we really have a disagreement, we leave it and pray over it for a few days and all but one or two times, one of us has changed our mind and there is no longer an issue. Love wins!
MLD speaks wisdom. I sure hope husbands are listening.
I’ve seen the other type of husband…the one that demands, “woman, submit to me…..” type. They and their wives are most miserable people.
Perhaps this was pointed out eventually in this thread, but I only got through about 50 comments.
The brouhaha over CCFtL’s removal of Coy’s messages online is silly, unless you live outside of the United States and/or have spent your entire existence under a rock. With all due respect to my brothers and sisters who are lawyers, the legal ramifications in this country of simply changing your underwear are both staggering and stupefying.
I was in the media ministry of a church whose pastor resigned for very similar reasons to Coy. The steps that we took in the ensuing hours, days, and weeks were — in a word — insane. They were all also legally required.
The OP analysis that they are “expunging … a manās life work from the church and the internet” is most likely inaccurate. The ensuing comments that take the idea much further, diviing motives and taking snark to levels that give a Sherpa a nosebleed, are nauseating.
And now you know why I only go through about 50 comments.
“So when a megachurch with ten satellites loses the personality they were built onā¦what happens now?”
What happens to any Cult when the Cult Leader is no more? It’s rare for a Brigham Young to follow on and turn a Personality Cult into a self-sustaining movement with staying power.
This happened locally with the inheritance blood feud over Crystal Cathedral. (And Schuller had only retired, not died!) Though now it’s “Christ Cathedral” after the Diocese of Orange bought it at the fire sale.
“There is no more bizarre, anti- Christian ritual in evangelicalism than the expunging of a manās life work from the church and the internet when he falls. Coy has been deleted from the CCA website and they are wiping the CCFTL site as fast as they can.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_censorship_of_images
If that link doesn’t work, search YouTube for “Joe the Georgian” by Al Stewart.
Tip: When your Christian antics bring to mind the regime that was Orwell’s direct inspiration for 1984 (“URRA STALINO!”), you might want to rethink your ministry.
erunner, the info I currently have is that it was a confession after-the-fact, meaning he didn’t come clean until confronted…but at least he came clean. Sometimes guys dig in and go down with the ship even though their guilty as hell.
It makes sense that bob didn’t stand before the church and confess because if this was going on ten years nearly then he was fooling everyone for a long time. what was he going to do, say “I have been in adultry and pornography for ten years and still took your money, your love, your trust, and your idolization.” that would be difficult for anyone to do. it seems the guy was making deliberate choices for ten years or whatever. he is probably riddled with shame right now. his family is probably really ticked at him. and maybe God is sparing everyone the details because they would hurt us all too much. i do want to say that we were created and saved to fellowship with God, not be in the ministry. people put way too much emphasis on ministry. that couple who won’t do anythng in the church but be ushers because they are remarried…sounds like penance to me. god wipes away sin if we repent. he does not keep us down after we repent, he lifts us up. for he is good. being married and never divorcingi seems to be some kind of standard that is the plumbline for being a Christian. but a Christian is someone who repents after they fall, who leans on their Lord, who obeys, who fellowships with God. the american church is so screwed up, i think.