Things I Think
1. Today is the first day of the 2013 Calvary Chapel Senior Pastors Conference.
In the past this has meant a flurry of preparation for me beforehand and a lot of checking with sources during and after the event.
This year…I don’t care.
I’ve done absolutely nothing to prepare.
I don’t care because nothing will come out of this conference that affects the issues that we have championed over the years…indeed, they won’t even be mentioned.
Most in attendance don’t even acknowledge that any issues exist.
As we just witnessed again in the SGM situation. religious leaders can create their own reality and that reality doesn’t include consideration of the people that by following them, make them leaders in the first place.
Change in these organizations will only come from two places.
It may come from change agents inside the movements, though this is unlikely as their numbers make them easy to silence or exclude.
It can come from the local level… if people don’t attend the churches and support rogue leaders then they no longer have the resources to lead.
In that case, I would remind the reader that every person we’ve “exposed” now has a larger ministry than when we did the exposing.
I have boots on the ground there, I’ll keep you posted if we get surprised.
Don’t hold your breath…
2. The true betrayal of the Body of Christ hasn’t come from above, in the leadership…it’s come from below where the gathered church values their idols and performance more than biblical ethics.
3. According to his daughter, Chuck Smith just had 3 liters of fluid removed from his lung and that fluid contained cancer cells. According to my sources he still doesn’t have a succession plan. Remember the story I ran about how Harold Camping wants his movement to die with him? Just sayin…
4. BrianD posted this link last night of “ministry resources” for the new Superman movie. Seriously? The word of God, the sacraments, and the fellowship of the Body aren’t enough to draw people to worship? I already know the answer…
5. I used to greatly value Don Carsons works as a theologian. Because of his support for Mahaney and the boys I will no longer use or purchase any of his works. If your heart isn’t right, your doctrine doesn’t matter.
6. I’m going to be quitting smoking again today. Tread lightly. 🙂
7. “Summertime is always the best of what might be.” Charles Bowden.
8. On the internet, you can meticulously personalize everything according to your personal taste. Your faith, your music, your news, your sports teams, your everything that concerns you…it’s all about you. As a result we have fewer and fewer shared experiences as a culture and we are fomenting a radical level of narcissism. I think…
9. I’m not nearly as concerned with the acceptance of homosexuality in the church as I am with the rejection of humility…
10. Finally today, I get to what I wanted to write about in the first place. I offer you J.I. Packers definition of the word “agape”… love as spoken of in the New Testament.
“a technical term in the New Testament, meaning a purpose of making a loved one great in whatever way that loved one needs to be made great, and doing so by whatever means are necessary to that end”.
Today, if we are intentional about “making a loved one great by whatever means that loved one needs to be made great” in Jesus name (for that is what He has done for us) we will do more to further the boundaries of the kingdom of God than by anything else we can do.
Make your own application…
1. My brother will probably be at that conference soaking up the kool aid through his pores.
Michael said
“6. I’m going to be quitting smoking again today. Tread lightly.”
—
It’s the best thing anyone could ever do for their health and the benefit of their children and children’s children.
Both parents now gone because of life long smoking. I miss them both (my mom just in april)
I’m praying ffor you that you are successful in quitting for good and for the rest of. Your hopefully long life.
-mic
CC conference: “The rapture is nigh”, “A generation is now 120 years”, “business is good”, “let us pray”.
2. I would agree. The idols have a hard time existing if there are no tithers to fund their platform.
3. I think it should die with him. Maybe the idolatry of the ‘brand’ could be broken down into local fellowships with zero affiliation whose only concern is their own flock.
4. Superman is trending, Jesus isn’t. Trends fill seats.
5. Amen
6. Good luck! I will pray for your endeavor.
7. Except for that super hot sun
8. I don’t really like all this ‘personalization’ stuff. I can understand the appeal but I don’t like the attention.
9. I still don’t understand what “accept homosexuality” means? Do we have to approve of sin to accept them? Do we have to declare the lifestyle ‘not a sin’ to accept them? It seems to me what they are looking for can only be granted by God Himself.
10. Great quote.
mike,
Thank you.
My son worked his tail off for various family members for a couple of months so he could buy me a fancy electric cigarette to help…I owe it to him to finally get over this addiction.
2. I don’t understand. The betrayal comes through unaccountability of the leaders which came from Chuck.
3. I miss the old -I mean the young- Chuck. Old weird Harold… *shudders*
4. Are we alone in the universe? Yes until we meet up with God.
5. Yep.
6. How many times? One of my brothers was a heavy smoker. He keeled over from a heart attack at 60.
7. Spring is my fave time of year.
8. It’s not really personal imo if it’s not in person. I tried Facebook. I hated it. I left after 2 daze.
9. You’re right about most churches/Christians but thankfully not all.
10. I’ll chew on that today and see how I can apply it to my wife. 😉
Crowned1,
Most of the guys I know personally already have churches that look like your #3…and I think those numbers are growing.
3. (part 2) Why would you make a succession plan when everyone is just about to be raptured? Wouldn’t that be admitting that you are going to die and the rapture isn’t imminent? (Bad PR in other words)
Gary,
Is the betrayal of trust by the leaders greater than the betrayal of trust by the laity who continue to support those leaders?
I say no.
The salient fact that has to be recognized at some point is that we are all responsible for our own spiritual health and that of our brothers and sisters.
This isn’t just a CC issue by any stretch of the imagination.
Crowned1,
Your #7 nailed it to a degree….but Jesus hasn’t come and cancer and age have.
Michael @ 6 “Most of the guys I know personally already have churches that look like your #3…and I think those numbers are growing.”
Excellent! Less ‘Inc.’ and more Jesus!
Regarding the CC Senior Pastor’s Conference–I have nothing to say. 😉
I think the betrayal of the church does come from leadership, who is preying upon the human, secular character of the laity, the very group they should be laboring with to excise that exact trait. If the laity were more spiritually mature, it wouldn’t tolerate such nonsense. Since they don’t seem to know better, shame on those who take advantage of it.
CS had three leaders close to his heart removed because they were cancerous? That’s news!! Oh, my mistake–need to read more closely.
“No butts about it!” May you find success in your anti-smoking crusade.
filbert,
” If the laity were more spiritually mature, it wouldn’t tolerate such nonsense.”
I agree…so the question before the house is “how do we make that happen”?
Michael,
Mark Twain once said, “Giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world. I know because I’ve done it thousands of times.”
Best of luck to you and I mean that.
Lutheran,
Thank you!
Said the cigarette; “May I butt in”?
Said the lips; “Yes, you can, sir.”
Michael @ 12 “how do we make that happen”
imo…we don’t. That is between the believer & God. Their personal seeking of the Lord is the only way to escape the web of ‘pulpit = canon’.
I was raised in CC costa mesa, I believed every single thing they said…until God lead me to read the bible without a filter.
Michael, my opinion on ‘how to make it happen’ isn’t novel–accountability both above (denominationally/organizationally) and laterally (elders in the local body). If leaders see themselves as part of a team with mutual goals, methods, and responsibilities, they are more likely to toe the line or leave the field.
fil,
I would amen the above…but I would also get back to what Packer has taught me…we have to catechize the church once again.
I would add that leaders are also accountable to those they lead, and ultimately they’ll answer to the Lord.
1. I’ve always been cynical about conferences. Last year I had the opportunity to go to the SBC worship leader conference. It was one of the most peaceful, fun, filling times my family and I have had together. Would have loved to go back this year, but couldn’t afford it.
All that to say, I now see the value in Conferences, but it is not to bring change to an organization. It’s to chill and refill.
2. I think you’ve overstated this. I agree that the pews hold responsibility, but we should be able to trust our leaders, too. Local churches with built in accountability is the answer.
3. I can only be sad for the guy as his life slips away. I don’t know where any succession plan is laid out in Scripture. My guess is that if Chuck made a succession plan, he would get it wrong.
4. Yuck.
5. I love Carson, and Mohler. It hurts me that they’ve sided so heavily with C.J. in this. I won’t write them off completely, but I can’t help but see them in a different light because of this.
6. Good for you. Praying for your success.
7. Nice quote, and I do love the summer. Vacation coming up in two weeks. Much needed.
8. I’ve kind of seen the opposite, too. I’ve seen people work together and cooperate who would have never done so in the real world. The challenge is to take the lessons from online relationships and apply them to people we meet in the flesh world.
9. Both equally irritate me. Carl Trueman’s last couple of articles have been along the “humility” lines, and as usual, they have been great.
10. Good words from Packer. Never heard agape explained in that way at all.
Josh,
In regard to #2.
In 2005 and 2006 we ran many stories with national coverage about a certain church in the Southwest.
Attendance went down dramatically…for a while.
In a little more than a year the church was back where it started.
The same people who wrote me demanding accountability and justice are now the pastors Facebook friends.
I did what I could do, the media did what they could do, other leaders did what they could…but the people in the pews saved the ministry.
The reason that man is still in the ministry is because people want him to be…and they have the leader they deserve.
Gary @ 5 “2. I don’t understand. The betrayal comes through unaccountability of the leaders which came from Chuck.”
1. There is no tithe money (power) to abuse, if there IS no money
2. There are no sheep to abuse, if there ARE no sheep
Leader says “We won’t change”? Okay…see ya later. Lead your empty house. Good luck with those operating expenses.
I’m surprised you made the trip down her or if your boots on the ground is someone… I stipped going to the conferences when they moved out to Murrieta. It became a hassle to get someone to get me in since Im not a pastor.. It would still be a piece of cake to get by the gate. but from what I’ve seen the last few yrs I ll just wait until someone livestreams it or does a post… funny I wonder if they do a livestream
Crowned1,
Exactly…
Steve,
I’m not there…I may be on a poster there, but I’m not there. 🙂
Michael @ 21 “the people in the pews saved the ministry.”
Or at least they saved the company and assets eh? Is the word out that the ‘ministry’ has been saved as well?
Michael, how much do those electric smokes cost?
#8 – Personalize how you would react should this happen to you.
Scott,
The one Trey bought me is 75.00…a lot of money for a little guy to make for papa.
I’ve used a bunch of other ones…this is the only one that could work for me.
Bob,
I would have added new words to the anthem… 🙂
Couldn’t have reacted better than the kid in the video did. He was perfect.
“Religious leaders don’t consider the people that follow them …”
Don’t most churches consist of about 15% that do all the work, another 15% that stay around doing nothing, and 70% that continually turns over?
So really isn’t the typical local church a ministry that is run by a core of people, serving a constantly changing crowd of onlookers?
Just curious.
I used to work with a guy who would often tell me that he had quite smoking. When I would ask him when he quit, he’d say, “About an hour ago.” He’d then assure me he was sure to quit again in the next hour or two after his next cigarette. Here’s hoping that you’re quitting last much longer than my friend’s in the past. 🙂
PP Vet,
There is some truth to that…and I think the reason for it is the structure of most churches…and how ignorant people are to how important they are to the Body.
KevinH,
It’s going to be a process, for sure.
This time it has to work…for my sake, but especially for my sons sake.
What is the best commentary on Job?
Josh,
Franz Delitzsch, very detailed.
Regarding any reformation in a big church…
“I think that if they let him, he’s going to make a revolution inside the Church, towards simplicity, he’s just like talking to a good neighbour you’ve known for years”.
I had to chuckle when I saw Brian D’s post about Superman. I grew up collecting those comics and if I’d held onto them with my baseball cards and vinyl albums… well never mind!
I watched a movie on Netflix live streaming last night titled Amazing Love. About a group of teens at youth camp that interweaves with the story of Hosea and his wife Gomer. The kids were a bit cookie cutter but the story of Hosea drove home some great points.
I’ve been looking for faith based uplifting movies lately and although some might not like it I think it’s excellent and can be a great tool for parents to show to 12 year olds and above and then talk about what they saw.
I’m sorry to read there are cancer cells in CS’s body and hope he is doing well. At this point I’m going to let things play out and pray that God will be glorified in whatever the future holds for the CC churches.
I’ve had positive experiences because of the internet. I have gotten to meet some awesome folks and have been encouraged by others who seek to travel the same road I do. The church we have been visiting recently is a direct result of this blog. I also believe there are blogs that offer real ministry to those who may not find it in their own lives.
This is a gripe as a person who operates his own blog. It’s been five years now that Michael kicked me in the pants to begin my blog and I’m grateful for that. What I quickly became aware of is the goal for many blog owners is to build their audience. Nominating blogs for awards and then posting their awards for all to see.
People have nominated me but I decline as I’m not comfortable with what seems a device to simply grow your numbers. Many drop by my blog with what seems the idea that I owe them a visit and to become one of their followers. I doubt they even read what I post. This bothers me especially when these folks operate “Christian” blogs.
At times it reminds me of churches that will do anything to get people through their doors. So I have chosen to stay away from this stuff on the net. I’m curious if other blog owners/operators reading here have thoughts on this topic?
Finally… what is becoming of my Angels and Dodgers? Can you say laughing stock? 🙂
Josh,
That is a very tough question.
I used Calvin and Sinclair Ferguson primarily and relied heavily on an audio exposition by Steve Brown.
Very hard book to teach…
#1
Assistant pastors were allowed to attend this year. Disappointed I wasn’t asked. Maybe its because I read PP. 😉
erunner @ 39 “what is becoming of my Angels”
I can’t decide if they are dropping the big bucks to fill seats or try to win. Lots of baseball still to go…but they aren’t hitting nearly enough to be a playoff contender.
Bob,
That is probably truer than it is funny…
erunner,
The more people read your blog, the better.
That is an important blog.
Thanks Bob and Michael, anymore will also be appreciated.
Job is very difficult to translate for modern believers.
Crowned1, I have to believe they’re trying to win which would fill seats but they get big bucks from their TV deal as do the Dodgers. We have Albert till 2021 and Hamilton for five years and they look terrible. How in the world they’d consider pulling Jerome Williams out of the rotation baffles me. I’m older these days and it’s interesting to see how our 27 year old son is having major meltdowns…… just as I did years ago! 🙂
Michael, How do you go about advertising or promoting your blog? I’m sure you must see some of what I’ve described. I guess I’m not sure how to try and draw more readers without resorting to the methods I see and am not fond of.
Josh,
I pulled up my old notes…I also used Robert Alden…and D.A. Carson.
erunner,
I suck at promotion…I’m way too self conscious.
I do use Twitter and I think it’s the simplest and best tool for a lot these days, including promoting your site.
Those who have to live from the proceeds of their ministries get some sympathy from me over attempts to promote what they do. Promoting a ministry can be a way of getting information to people as a service.
It can also be just good old self-promotion, too.
I sometimes wish that local churches who have guest speakers would do more to promote their appearance.
We once missed seeing Donna Douglas at a local church because we found out about it too late.
Donna Douglas!
Jethro was at the local casino once but we were not too interested.
We are huge Beverly Hillbillies fans at our house.
I hope if I ever have anything to offer I am able to understand the difference between responsible and essential healthy promotion of my ministry as a service, and self-promotion.
Michael,
Check this out, it is totally cool!
This is about the inner critic, the voice inside one’s head with undermines the creative process.
“5 Tactics to Silence the Biggest Creativity Killer”
1 Write down what the voice tells you. Get the words out of your head and down on paper. Exposing internal judgment to the light of day diminishes its strength.
2 Repeat the voice’s words out loud while grinning. Keep saying the words out loud and keep smiling. Try laughing at the words — after all, internal judgment is usually more ridiculous than real.
3 Turn around the negative statement. If the internal voice says, “Your idea will never work,” turn it around to “My idea will definitely work.” If the voice says “Everybody will laugh at you,” turn it around to “I’ll laugh at me and not take myself so seriously.” If the voice says, “You don’t have the resources to do this,” turn it around to say, “I’ll find the resources I need to do this.”
4 Play some music. Not the sad, somebody-done-me-wrong stuff, but high-energy, upbeat sounds. Maybe even dance or plug in your ear buds for a quick walk — internal judgment hates lively exercise and will flee the scene.
5 Go explore. Internal judgment also abhors curiosity. There’s no room in its agenda for new books or blogs, unique restaurants or shops. Fill your mind with outside insights and crowd out internal judgment.
The article
http://www.howdesign.com/design-creativity/silence-self-doubt/
or just work your way through this book.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Artists-Way-Julia-Cameron/dp/1585421464
LOVE The Artist’s Way!!!
Michael…prayers for you. My husband maintains a “spray license” and must take continuing education about pest control. One seminar he attended said nicotine was the most toxic of the “stuff” that could be sprayed– they used it to kill worms in horse’s stomachs AND it was the most addictive of addictive substances. Stopping smoking is the hardest thing of all. What love Trey has shown you to buy you the e-cigarette– that blows my mind!
It occurred to me that the reason Chuck Smith doesn’t have a succession plan is that God wants the movement to die so that something fresh and new can reach a new generation. The sins are buried with the institution. A seed dies, and new life is born. Perhaps I’m just optimistic.
Listened to Chuck this morning on the way to work– he still ministers to me. Prayers for him.
Linnea,
You might be right about the succession and I know you’re right about nicotine!
.” The true betrayal of the Body of Christ hasn’t come from above, in the leadership…it’s come from below where the gathered church values their idols and performance more than biblical ethics
”
This.
A succession plan isnt needed because pastor Chuck expects to be raptured at any moment.Plan B is simple, CCCM is a family run affair …Chuck knows who going to take over.I will be one of his family.
***It occurred to me that the reason Chuck Smith doesn’t have a succession plan is that God wants the movement to die so that something fresh and new can reach a new generation. The sins are buried with the institution. A seed dies, and new life is born. Perhaps I’m just optimistic.***
Do we really want something “fresh and new” to reach a new generation? What does that even mean? 2000 years after the fact there’s some new way to do things? One could argue that Calvary Chapel was fresh and new in its heyday, and, quite frankly, it sucked and, as the years have gone on, has been revealed to be a harbor for abusive, unchristian, so-called “pastors” and a place for naive or willfully blind or utterly selfish parishioners to throw their money away on said pastors. Fresh and new didn’t cut it. Maybe CC can die out and something old and stable can take its place.
J2…
Your last comment. Was right on.
I spent several years in several diff denoms and regularly heard the cry for ‘fresh, new’ vision, fire or whatever the ‘leadership’ was trying to sell as the holy ghost to pump up the faithful. It all turns to bovine excrement.
What we need is to get over ourselves and our ‘movement’ (nice pun for the excrement) or the next ‘big thing’ and get back to JESUS.
The church and the unbelieving world alike don’t need ‘fresh, new’… They need JESUS as their LIFE.
-mic
j2 and mike…
Wow– a harsh response.
I’m not proposing a new program and performance. If you knew me, you’d know that I detest that approach. What occurred to me was that perhaps the movement breaking apart is the best way to address the sickness that has overtaken it.
No, the gospel hasn’t changed, but the way people come to know Jesus in our culture may have.
… And I don’t want to go back and forth on this…
What is so harsh about calling people back to simply Jesus?
-mic
Michael may you make Trey proud of you in your accomplishment of your goal. You truly are a sign post leading in a direction that he will always follow. May you lead well in your fine example father of Trey son of God.
I guess it’s hard to know, Linnea, what people mean when they talk about something “new” in Christianity. As mike alluded to, there are tons of so-called pastors out there proclaiming the next “new” vision or program or whatever, but those visions and programs generally have nothing to do with Jesus or God or Christianity and everything to do with elevating the vision-caster. When I hear someone talking about doing something “new” in christianity, I immediately think of those sorts of people.
***No, the gospel hasn’t changed, but the way people come to know Jesus in our culture may have***
I am curious what that change is that you have in mind. I just can’t imagine how coming to know Jesus could have substantially altered in 2000 years. I look at the evangelical nuttiness of the 20th century and the focus on hype and image and emotionalism to the detriment of substance, and that seems like something new, and it worked out horribly. Is there some other new thing that is going to work out better?
“something old and stable” is definitely an appealing facet of humanity.
When we exhaust the latest new and exciting trends in fashion & music we inevitably go retro and rediscover what endures, that being what is tried & true, simplicity
http://blog.anchordivision.com/
http://www.thefrontporch.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/The_Lumineers.jpg
“but the way people come to know Jesus in our culture may have”
Kind of is a better answer.
God calls people to Him in the same ways it has always been done, through things happening in their lives, through the light He shows through others and by the power of His Spirit. Nothing is new under the sun.
Now if you mean we have the more communication today than ever before, then yes that is different. But the rest is all the same.
I don’t see CC going away under any circumstances. There will continue to be those who don’t get it but at the same time others will move on as they already have by making changes in how they do things. What that will look like after PC passes is something we will have to wait for.
What Linnea wrote when she mentioned something new I looked at as a structure/movement/denomination that will not resemble what she sees now. So the something new for me could just be something different.
Linnea has been here long enough for me to realize she desires whatever will glorify God only and not be a man centered, gimmick centered, or anything else centered program that would take away from what God is seeking to do in a world that has all but rejected what we have to share with them in the effort to see them come to a saving knowledge of Jesus.
Or maybe I’m imposing my hopes into Linnea’s comments and have no clue what she was saying! 🙂
erunner,
I concur with your assessment of Linnea.
Things will and have changed over the centuries.
In the 1600’s a sermon that ran less than 3 hours could get a pastor fired for sloth.
Today, the attention span is measured in minutes, not hours.
I believe the last thirty years of technological advances have changed how we relate in every way…and in ways we have yet to define.
The message hasn’t changed…how it will be transmitted and received is changing radically.
Think of all the ways people come to God through Jesus. I don’t mean theology but methods. For 2000 years throughout hundreds of cultures God reaches all kinds of people. It’s exciting to think of how God will work next. He is the great redeemer. He works in the vilest of situations. I am very disillusioned with the dusty remains of the Jesus movement. I believe the only reason God hasn’t called the game is cuz of His limitless love of His creation. Heaven ain’t half full.
We don’t know what new thing God will do in the future but He is always at work. Now where are those pennies?
I play around with an E Cigar once in a while, not too bad, I think if you find the right brand and load of ECig that you can buy in bulk and get the cost for a 6 month supply down to 1/10th what it would cost. I’m praying you can !
That Superman movie site is fantastic, and a great idea, Myth is an echo of truth; we can learn a lot from the idea of superman and redemption and sacrifice etc… I would say this is a great idea for small groups, not as a main congregation sermon.
At the same time, I cant dam this Christ analogy parallel centered idea to hell while glimly sitting through the next visiting missionary sermon which contains zero Christ and zero scripture but retellings of stories that all center around the mans life.
Not sure what your # 9 means or how they are related, but this article is related:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/03/lutherans-elect-first-openly-gay-bishop/
Hope you kick the habit, I did it years ago cold turkey, it was a tough week, lost my temper and kicked a hole in my wall, still didn’t give in and Jesus took the physical cravings away, still looked good when I saw some cool person smoking, but would remember how bad it really was (smoked when I already had enough) and never smoked again.
That was my experience.
I’m very thankful with God’s help I quit, hope you do too.
Thank you Q and Gary…I’ll need all then prayers I can get!
My housemate has been off the cigarettes for two weeks. Thanks to the grace of God, the prayer of friends and appropriate medication. He is feeling the difference. May God keep you strong!
Linnea. Wish I could say that all the evil just gets buried. It does not. Unless repentance followed by reform takes place the movement continues, but evil becomes embodied in what Scripture calls and God calls out as ” the tradition of your fathers”.
What Michael said @67 is a better expression of what I meant:
“The message hasn’t changed…how it will be transmitted and received is changing radically.”
E and Michael….thanks for the kind words.
Michael, I measure the “effectiveness” of this ministry according to how the prophets were used by God .
Essentially the prophets were used to call forth and sustain a remnant in the grace of God over a period of prolonged apostasy. As a whole the leadership did not change, nor did the people according to popular census. They marketed and mouthed off about their Israel while refusing to manifest what God commanded and rightly expected.
Apostasy begins with a decline in ethics and the decline in doctrine follows as it morphs to fit the declining lifestyle.
One of the main controversial.personalities that you dealt with here is now trying to market himself market himself nearby and his message ( which used to,actually have biblical sups stance) now sounds like a mix between Osteen and Copeland.
The other megalomaniac you engaged is moonlighting ; offering himself as part of a a”revival” nearby during his stay at the pastors conference.
Back to Israel. In due time, though it seemed hidden by the long suffering of God, judgment came. In like manner, although now mediated and manifested personally by Christ; judgment will come first to the House of God and then extend to the nations
Oh I forgot to state directly that I see this ministry as manifesting its integrity and authority in ministering too and empowering a remnant according to the grace of God.
Vic,
I really have to think your last comment through…thank you.
After what I’ve seen the last couple of days I wonder how much worse things have to get before judgment begins…
It appears Chuck has made some succession plans for CCCM but it will be without an announcement. But rather by default probably upon Chucks passing, Brian B. will officially take over CCCM. Im sure those on the board that are not on board 😛 with Brians B’s taking over. Im sure have been squeezed out or will be squeezed out enough in a majority vote. All the other CC’s will be divided into sectors over seen democratically within there division east coast west coast etc. At the end of the day who cares.
I think the linking of the article about the ELCA gay bishop could be exactly what Michael said in his #9. If it’s posted it in humility, praise the Lord. If it’s being posted while at the same time shaking one’s head, sin sniffing and pointing fingers, well, that’s the opposite of humility. And that attitude damages our witness to the Lord Christ, IMHO. No matter what one’s stance is about the issue itself.
Hmm. So If the bible says homosexuality is wrong, but depends on some subjective attitude.
No.
Pride is the chiefest sin (leads to the others) but homosexuality is a sin also that needs to be forgiven by faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus.
No reason to open the door to either.
I was just thinking on something….CC is a recognizable church franchise nam on the west coast. But I find as you start to move out to the middle of the US and then to the east coast.
The Calvary chapel name gets very diluted as a known church domination. I lived in Fl a few years back, and I asked some church friends if they new Greg Laurie. There like huh?
Then consider south America, Africa with there billions people, then to India to Europe and so on. Going back to when I lived in FL again, AG churches and Baptist churches are the popular denominations. CC just doesn’t have much influence as you think beyond California, Nevada, Arizona. Even though there is 1000+ CC churches, consider the typical size of CC’s and divide that by the total population of the USA. Its a drop in the bucket.
In the end Jesus will dishout prizes for our works, and those works done with wrong motives will be burn up. This applies to all of us. I say lets get a move on and reach this lost world for Jesus Christ. Ditch the church politics and envy and get free in order to set others free by the Gospel…
3. (part 2) Why would you make a succession plan when everyone is just about to be raptured? Wouldn’t that be admitting that you are going to die and the rapture isn’t imminent? (Bad PR in other words) — Crowned1, #7
“END TIME PROPHECY IS BEING FULFILLED EVEN AS WE SPEAK!!! WE MIGHT NOT HAVE A 1978!!!!! OR EVEN A 1977!!!!!!!”
— some radio evangelist of that period. It is now 2013.
When The World Ends Tomorrow and It’s All Gonna Burn, don’t expect long-range planning. Don’t expect living a life. Don’t expect anything except Sell That Fire Insurance.
Both my writing partner and I lost 10 years of our lives to The Gospel According to Hal Lindsay and Christians For Nuclear War. Who will restore those years the End Time Prophecy locusts have eaten?
It appears Chuck has made some succession plans for CCCM but it will be without an announcement. — Al, #79
Remember what happened to Crystal Cathedral. Went down in an inheritance fight when the CELEBRITY founder retired — Schuller wasn’t even dead when his heirs ran it into the ground and the Catholic Diocese of Orange got the winning bid at the bankruptcy fire sale. Now the Crystal Cathedral is going to become a REAL Cathedral, seat of the Bishop of Orange. (Considering the anti-Catholic rhetoric I used to hear on all the Calvary Chapel-dominated Christianese AM radio back in the day (Paging Raul Rees…), it’s poetic justice. Even though Crystal Cathedral is not affiliated with Calvary Chapel.)
If Jesus is coming back today, where is the Jewish temple?
If the Crystal Catheter WAS a CC then you could go in jeans and bare feet. That’s poetic license and evidently it’s been revoked. At least it didn’t become a disco. It was better when it was a drive-in church. jk
You said, “3. According to his daughter, Chuck Smith just had 3 liters of fluid removed from his lung and that fluid contained cancer cells. According to my sources he still doesn’t have a succession plan. Remember the story I ran about how Harold Camping wants his movement to die with him? Just sayin…”
I can’t believe you put Pastor Chuck and Harold Camping in the same sentence. All that smoking of who knows what, has damaged your puny brain. Oh, and by the way, you haven’t “championed” a think unless being a bitter towards Calvary Chapel man who chooses to stay in his bitterness a thing that it worthy of championing.
You say you don’t care, but you most certainly do. It is so sad because you don’t help wounded people, you encourage others to stay in their “woundedness,” as you do, all the while blaming CC. Pathetic! Get your head out and look up man! We are supposed to press on, right? Not wallow in the past!
That was the best hate comment we’ve had in years.
I thought I was losing my touch, but I feel much better now.